Transcript
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I'm Nicole Arcelo and welcome to In Behalf of Animals
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As Vegans. We get hit with a lot of questions from our not
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yet vegan friends, family and strangers too.
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These questions range from our use of sugar to gluten.
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But the most common question I I am asked is,
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oh, you're vegan, you eat fish, right?
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It's frustrating for sure, but maybe we as animal
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advocates aren't doing enough for the fishes and other aquatic animals
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on this planet. I think we need to think
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about them more and include them in our advocacy.
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It can be as simple as educating our friends and family and
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sharing posts on social media to give these animals a voice.
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Well, today we're going to arm you with a lot of information
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about some of our ocean dwelling friends actions you can take
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for them today. And for our animal loving friends.
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Not quite there yet. We are going to talk about food and
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recipes to keep fish and all aquatic animals
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off of your plate. I am so excited
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to sit down with Mary Finelli, president and founder of fishfeel,
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to talk about why fish are not a benign presence on human plates,
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but sentient beings deserving of our compassion and our
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advocacy too. I hope this inspires you to think about
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fish, shrimp, lobster, as animals
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equal to dogs, cats,
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cows, pigs, and of course
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equal to us as well.
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Here's my conversation with Mary Finelli.
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Hi Mary. Welcome to In Behalf of Animals.
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Hello Nicole. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you so much
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for being here. It really means a lot to me to have you here and
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to share all of your knowledge and all of your work with our listeners.
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And I just want to say first that if I
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had a dollar for every person who said,
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oh, so you're vegan, you eat fish, right? I'd probably
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be close to a millionaire by now. So it really,
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really frustrates me that people in 2024 don't understand
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fish, don't understand lobsters, crab,
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shrimp, and that they are animals and that vegans
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and vegetarians for the most part do not eat them.
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So I would like to start out with a question.
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Why do people think that the consumption of fish is like
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this benign act? And why don't people give fish moral consideration?
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Yes, it really is exasperating and I certainly understand how you feel
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and I share your feeling. But you know, I think it is understandable
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given our social conditioning
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about fishes. Like if you think, for example, what other
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animal is it considered? Not all, not only our right to kill, but also to
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torture for fun, which is what fishing is. You know, so called sport
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fishing and there's really nothing sporting about it. The fish are victims,
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they're not willing participants. Right. But our society has such
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a moral blind spot when it comes to fishes. And I
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refer to them as fishes just because I'd like to indicate that they
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are. Well, it is the biological term when you're referring to more than one
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species of fish. But also increasingly people are using it
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to indicate that they are individuals with their own unique personalities.
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So often, you know, for example, when they say the
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number of fishes who are caught, they'll give it in tons rather than
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individual animals. So just like people would
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know that each of these animals is a unique sentient being with
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their own individual personalities. But you know,
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I mean, we really even just look at some of our laws. You know,
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animal, for example, fishes are not included in the Humane
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Slaughter Act. They're not included in the Animal Welfare Act. They're exempt from
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a lot of anti cruelty statues. They're not even defined as animals in a
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lot of these laws. Right. And for example, a lot
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of your listeners may recall, for example the stark,
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starkist tuna commercials where they have Charlie
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Tuna and he wants to be caught. You know, it's just this real
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blind spot that fishes are not sentient.
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And in the past there, there was not that much evidence of
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their sentience that that was publicly known. But that
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fortunately that is changing now and increasingly people are realizing that
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they are just as sentient as any other beings and
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just as deserving of respect and compassion as any,
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any other sentient beings. Yeah, and I,
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I'm so glad you brought up that point about how they're measured in tons and
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not in how many fish. You know, like we talk about the billions
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of farm animals, farmed animals, you know, that are killed every year
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and they can count it. So fish are just
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weighed and that's it. So, and I want
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you to talk about, roll right into it, the fish sentience.
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And I know there was just another study that I think came out recently
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that, that talked about this, but what kinds of things do
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we know about fish that we didn't know before? How they think
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they feel? They don't want to die. Right. They feel pain and they have emotions
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and, and, and they have families and tell, tell me more, tell us more about
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that. Right. And you know, I mean it has been scientifically known that
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fish do have a complex nervous system. And in
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the more recent years it's been shown that they also have pain receptors.
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But so many people don't think that fish can Feel,
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you know, that's why we named the organization Fish Feel. It's just so
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basic. You know, they do have a complex nervous system.
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They have pain receptors. They've been shown to behave
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in ways that indicate they are experiencing pain when
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they're exposed to painful stimuli.
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And, for example, they will stop eating.
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They'll go into seclusion. They'll. If they have
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an injury, they'll rub that area, you know, favor that area.
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So there's, you know, very compelling,
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really overwhelming, overwhelming evidence that they are
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sentient. Right. And, you know, just imagine how could an animal
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survive in nature if they were not able to experience pain and,
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and try to avoid that pain then and in the future.
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So it's, it's just really common sense.
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It should be common sense that they are sentient. And there is
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so much scientific evidence. Now there's a book by Victoria
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B.R. worth. She was Braithwaite. She was professor of fisheries
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and biology at Penn State University. And she wrote the book Do
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Fish Real Pain? And very eloquently explains the scientific
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basis. And the answer, of course, is yes, they do feel pain.
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And more recently, the book what a Fish Knows
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by Jonathan Balcombe, which is a. He was finding, he's an ethologist
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and he was finding all these scientific studies and he thought if the public
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knew just how amazing, perceptive and intelligent
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and sensitive these animals are, it was so changed their perception of
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them. And that's really a terrific book, what a Fish Knows. But, you know,
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in the last couple decades, there's been so much scientific evidence
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studying these animals and showing that they are indeed sentient,
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sentient, intelligent, perceptive beings. Wow.
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There. There's so much out there and, and people still aren't aware
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because they don't take the time to, to learn or,
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you know, even the fact that people still go fishing and they do
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catch and release. You know, I remember doing
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this with my father when I was very young, and,
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you know, we had. The fish had a hook in his mouth and we took
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the hook out and threw the fish back like this fish was just an object.
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And I remember after going vegan, I just felt so horrible about
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that, that I just thought that fish were just objects
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and, and they're clearly not. So. Can you tell me
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about how a fish becomes food? Because I think that's really important too.
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I think, you know, we, we look at slaughterhouse videos and things
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with pigs and, and chickens and cows. But how do
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fish go from the ocean to people's
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plates? Yes. And just going back a moment,
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that's very interesting, you know about and you're not alone in having gone
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fishing and then ultimately realizing how cruel that is and
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stopping. And we actually have a page on our website called your page and
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we have numerous accounts of people who have, you know, had that same experience.
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And you know, it's not surprising because there is such a big push
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to, for people to go fishing.
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You know, it's heavily promoted. For one thing, they want to sell fishing
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licenses and they want to sell fishing gear and even the boat boat
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companies want to sell boats and all. And especially for children, there's something
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called youth fishing rodeos. And this is something that's taking place all
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across the country, promoted by government agencies,
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you know, fish and wildlife agencies, and also by fishing companies and
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even by police departments and so many other agencies that
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are trying to get kids to go fishing, to kind of hook them on fishing,
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you know, because it is losing popularity. And so they're really
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making a big push to get kids. That's awesome.
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Children, but also women and disabled people, elderly, anyone they can
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get to go to go fishing. So, you know, but as
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far as how fish, okay, well, fishing is
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huge industry, of course, and it's been calculated that
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some 2 trillion fishes are caught every year.
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And what happens are in, in general for the industry,
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these huge fleets go out there and there's
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three basic ways that they they fish. They can put out trawlers
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which are like nets that go across the bottom of the ocean
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and just catch whoever happens to be down there. In the meantime, they're also destroying
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coral reefs and you know, bringing up
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just whatever happens to be there or whoever happens
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to be there. And also there's gill nets
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which are these mile long nets that they drop hanging vertically in
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the ocean and whoever happens to swim into that gets caught.
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And also long line fishing where there are these miles long lines
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of fishing lines with tens of thousands of hooks on.
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And not only is it so inhumane the way they're catching these animals,
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but so indiscriminate. They're also catching dolphins and seals,
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turtles, even whales and birds.
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So you know, these animals can be out there suffering for hours or days before
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they're caught. And then sometimes this gear
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will get lost or abandoned. And it's called ghost fishing where it's
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still catching and killing animals. But they're, you know, for naught.
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They're just. And this can go on for years and then they'll haul the animals
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up and many of them, if they're caught in these big nets
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are crushed under the weight of the tons of other
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fishes that they're bringing up and then usually they're suffocated,
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they're left to suffocate or they can be disemboweled
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while they're still alive or frozen while they're still alive. So it's, you know,
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it can take hours or even days for them
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to die. It's just so grossly inhumane. And then there's also
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fish farming which is looked at as a solution
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to overfishing because we're basically desertifying the oceans. We're pulling so
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many fishes from the oceans. And with fish farming
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they have these animals usually in what they call sea
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pens. So they're like huge nets out in the ocean close
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to the coast. And they can be in there for a
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couple of years till they're big enough to consider market weight.
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And they're crowded conditions and they're fed
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all kinds of antibiotics and parasiticides and
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such to try to keep them alive. And the disease can
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spread like wild in there and also affect the other,
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the non captive fishes and also the feces
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and uneaten food and dead fishes will sink to the bottom
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and pollute that water. And they're crawling with sea lice
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because they're just so crammed together. It's just such a
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great medium for sea life, parasites. And they can transmit
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those also to the wild fishes and then
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eventually they're also caught and killed, hauled in and killed in
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same cruel slaughter methods. So it's just inhumane
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every which way. Just to think that, that they're just suffocating to
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death and then, you know, and,
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or they're just being cut open while they're alive. So there's just
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no consideration at all for really not for these, for these fish
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at all. And even if there was some sort of consideration,
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the suffering is just, you know, just like every other animal.
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There's no such thing as humane slaughter or humane, you know, ways to
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do that, to do this to animals. Right.
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And also Nicole, there are these, in some places there are certification
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systems and you know, investigation after investigation
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shows how, how cruel these systems are too. There's really,
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I mean, you know, just throwing these animals, stomping on them, smashing their heads.
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It's, there's just nothing awful. And imagine trying to
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have oversight over this too. Especially when it's out in the ocean. You know,
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it's just so improbable and so un realistic to think that there's going
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to be looking for welfare concerns
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which really aren't even a concern. When it comes to the industry. So,
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you know, these called certification systems are.
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There's nothing humane about them either, which is awful.
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So also. So I
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went to a. You know, I've been vegan for 15 years, so I
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was at a grocery store recently in preparation for our
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interview, and I said, okay, I'm going to make myself go into the
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fish department because I want to see.
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Because you will see whole fish, right? Whole fish laying
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there in these, in these. I don't know what, what it's called in the.
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I know there's like the meat department, the fish department and grocery stores. And then
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you see those tanks of lobsters, too, and you see
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these overcrowded tanks. You see these lobsters in here that people are going to
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purchase and bring home. So can you tell us a little bit more about
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the other sea creatures? Some lobsters, crabs,
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shrimp? Yes.
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Well, for example, for lobsters, they're caught in, generally caught
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in lobster traps, which are these traps they put down in
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the water with a long line attached to them, and then
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the lobster will crawl into it. There'd be some kind of bait in there.
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The lobster will crawl in and not be able to get back out. And in
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addition to killing these lobsters, a big problem, especially in the Northeast,
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is that the population of whales,
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Atlantic right whales, are getting tangled up in these lines and they.
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There's only about 350 of these animals left. They're extremely
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endangered. And the main reason that they're getting killed
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is because of these lobster traps that they're getting entangled in. And they
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can, you know, go suffer for months or
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years with these ropes entangled on them and weighing them down,
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and they try to save them, try to go out and rescue them.
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That's very dangerous. And only
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certain people are allowed to do that because it is so dangerous. And,
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you know, again, trying to track a whale in the ocean,
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that's not easy either. So it's, you know, so cruel
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to the lobsters and to the, to the whales and offer something that nobody needs
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to be eating. Lobsters. Right. I think
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people, some people see lobsters as this, you know,
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expensive dish and for special occasions, which even is more sickening
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to me that, you know, people choose different animals
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to eat for different kinds of celebrations. What do we
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know about the sentience of, of lobsters and, and,
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and crabs and shrimp? What do we know about. About that that people
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don't know? What do we know that people don't know? Yeah, there is compelling scientific
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evidence that they too, are sentient. You know, they've done invest
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experiments for, like, shocking them, and they behave
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in ways that indicate that the shock is painful to them.
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For example, hermit crabs,
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for example, you know, they like a particular shell and
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they've shown they'll prefer one shell to the other,
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but if they get an electric shock, they'll go for the less
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favored shell just to avoid the electric shocks.
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And they also have nervous systems and pain receptors.
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So there's no reason to think that they aren't sentient either.
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Right. And we actually had a campaign. A lot of people are saying now that
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it's okay to eat oysters for some reason, you know, as if
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I've heard that too. Yeah. And, you know, they also have a nervous
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system, but also there are other animals who depend on them for
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food, who. Who need to eat them, depend on them for food. And we
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had a campaign here in the, in the Chesapeake Bay
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is where these cownose rays, they're like little mana rays.
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They would come up to the Chesapeake Bay. That's where they would breed and have
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their nursery grounds. And they are considered one of
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the most vulnerable to overfishing because they only.
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They don't mate until they're like six or seven years of
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age and they only have one pup a year. The females,
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mature females, so they're very vulnerable to overfishing.
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But because they were being blamed for the oyster populations
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crashing, which in actuality are due to overconsumption by humans
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and destruction of the oyster reefs by humans and pollution
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and disease caused by humans,
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these rays were being scapegoated. So they were. The bowfishers
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were going out, and these rays tend to stay on the surface of the water.
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So these bowfishes were going out and shooting them and hauling them up
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and beating them with metal bats. And then they were having contests,
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weighing them, you know, and see who had bigger,
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bigger one. And they were doing things like zip, tying pregnant females
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to keep them from giving birth, just so they were way more.
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And we, we went out and documented it with the
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group shark. Yes, we documented
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it and showing animals respecting kindness. And we
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documented just how gruesome these contests were. And afterwards, after they would just take
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these animals and dump them by the barrel back into the. Into the water,
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all, you know, dead or dying.
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And so we documented that and we formed a coalition.
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We were able to get a moratorium on those contests here in Maryland.
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But, you know, the reason they were having these gruesome contests and
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the reason they still go out boat fishing for counter race is
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because they're blaming them for, for the oysters being eaten.
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So here's these. And it was shown that they actually, that's just a tiny,
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tiny part of the diet. It's, you know, they're definitely not the cause of the
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oyster population crashes. But, you know,
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when you start eating, saying any animal is safe to eat,
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you really are starting a slippery slope. You know,
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no one needs to be eating the oysters. And all of the nutrients that we
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get from, from fishes and from, from all animals,
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we can get from vegan sources. So, you know, if you're needlessly harming animals,
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you're abusing animals. Absolutely. I'm so glad you talked about that,
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because I didn't, I didn't have that in my notes. And I
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remember seeing that maybe in the past year
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that there were like some vegans that are like, oh, we can eat oysters.
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And I was like, why, first of all, why would you want to do that
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if you're vegan for animals, why would you want to do that? And you have
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to remember that everything does have a consequence. Right. When we use
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an animal, like you were just saying, and then they
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demonize another animal, you know, to, to harm,
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there's always a consequence and go ahead.
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And, you know, increasingly we're learning things that were denied
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animals, how, how intelligent and how perceptive and how sensitive
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animals are. You know, just because you think this
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animal isn't capable of sentience,
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you know. Can you prove, you can't prove that. They aren't and they deserve the
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benefit of any doubt. Right? That's, that's awful.
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Just. And you know, to back up when you were talking about, you know,
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when fish are captured, then there's dolphins
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and other animals that are being captured as well. And I, and I want
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to say that there are groups that kind of want to save the dolphins,
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but they don't do anything about the fish. Is that right? Is there like.
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Yeah, that's true. It's great that they were trying to save the
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dolphins and I applaud them for that. But I mean, the reason they're
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catching these dolphins is because they're competing with humans for fish. That's really
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the main reason they're having these dolphin drives. So the best way you can
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help, really, any marine animal is by
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not eating them. You know, in the
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fishing industry, catches, you know, will buy, catch a catch along
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with the 2 trillion fishes they're catching every year. Of course, they're pulling up
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all these other animals too, which they basically throw back dead or dying for
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the most part, or they Might use them for fertilizer or something like that.
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But you know, it's just such an incredibly wasteful
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industry and also a very polluting industry because,
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you know, it's getting harder and harder to catch these animals because they're, you know,
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overfishing closer into the coast so they're having to go out further and further.
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Wow. And, and I know there's environmental
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movements regarding our oceans and,
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and things like that. And we know that vegan not
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eating animals and environmentalists are not in lockstep,
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which is a whole other episode, I would say. But what
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do you see on that end of it? The environmental conservation people,
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like, are they doing anything about this? Or.
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You know, the conservationists, I think largely they are concerned
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about populations, keeping populations. Largely what they're concerned
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about is keeping populations large enough that humans can continue exploiting
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them. You know, they have really little if any concern about,
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well, the well being of the individual animals. That's really, you know,
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in fact, when the documentary Conspiracy came out, I'm on
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this one Facebook page, Marine Bio, which is a
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lot of marine biologists and other people concerned about, you know, marine conservation.
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And they were some of the biggest critics of the movie Conspiracy.
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They were just, you know, they're so wed to the idea of sustainable
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fishing that they just can't even think about the
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obvious solution of just not eating them if you don't need to,
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you know, if you have to eat fish to survival, that's really unfortunate and hopefully
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society can find better ways to help these people, you know,
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survive. But if you don't need to eat it, that's, and you know,
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it's, it's better for you too because when you're eating these animals
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you're getting, you know, they're so highly toxic with mercury and
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these forever chemicals and microplastics and parasites
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and cholesterol. Saturated fat seafood is promoted as a
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health, healthful food, but it's really anything but.
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And you can get again all the nutrients from vegan sources
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that are a lot better for you, certainly better for the other animals and better
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for the environment. It really just makes sense. Right.
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So talking and talking about that, before we get into the alternatives,
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there's a lot of, we see it with other farmed
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animals, right, the humane washing that they put on labels, the organic,
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the grass fed, the cage free. What are people seeing
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that? So they know that that's not true.
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So it's probably eco washing. Is eco washing a word or
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humane Washington to make people feel better about that purchase?
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So, right. What Kind of things are. Can people see at the store?
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Well there's marine certification.
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I'm trying to remember the name of the main one. Marine certification.
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I can't remember it off top of my head but there's a number of.
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These different ones organic and like
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I know the salmon, they have like wild caught and
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farmed salmon and I've heard people over the years
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say oh this one's better for you, it's mercury free or, or you know,
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things like that. So they're trying to. Well basically all fish really have
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mercury and no amount of mercury is good for you.
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And the wild, the wild caught ones are really high in it
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because it, when it hits, when mercury hits, which is basically formed by
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coal producing plants, the pollution from coal producing plants.
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And when that hits the water it forms methylmercury which is like the most dangerous
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form of mercury. And that's what you're getting when you're eating wild caught
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seafood animals. Wild caught marine animals.
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And so you know, these certification systems,
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basically they don't take humane concerns into consideration.
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That's really not, not what they're concerned. There are some that supposedly
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do like for example the RSPCA over in
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the uk they certify systems over there. But you know
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there have been recent investigations, numerous investigations that
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are showing that there's nothing humane about the way these animals are treated,
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the way they're kept. You know, it's just really, it is
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humane washing, that's what it is. Right, right, yeah, we know that
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from you know, all of these, the grass fed
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farms and the. I always say there's no right way or
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better way to abuse an animal or you
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know, animals are suffering no matter what and the level of suffering shouldn't
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matter to anybody. That's can they suffer.
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And ultimately they're all slaughtered in very inhumane ways
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and you know, the way they're kept too and they again, they can be kept
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for years till they're just automate, you know, two years or whatever for
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certain fishes and you know it's just cruelty throughout.
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Know that you've been doing some tabling events lately and
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so what is the response you get from people who come to your, to your
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table? Are some people, you know, like those pescatarians or
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are they not vegan or vegetarian? Or are they,
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you know, are they shocked? Are they, you know, when they walk up
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to your booth, what do, what do people say? What's the first thing you tell
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people? Maybe? Well we have a very colorful booth
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to attract people and we have you know, a lot of different fact sheets available
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for them. And we have, we show. We have sample,
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not samples, but examples of vegan seafood products. And we
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also have a kids table that is very popular. But usually they come up
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and, you know, we let them know what the
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fact sheets are. We have one on sentience, we have an environmental fact
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sheet, a human health fact sheet, and we also have a couple sample vegan tuna
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recipes, a fact sheet with that on. And generally that's what
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seems to get the most interest, is the vegan tuna recipes.
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They're interested in that. And then we let them know that,
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you know, we have hundreds of recipes, if not thousands of recipes on our website
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and that there are vegan seafood cookbooks and, you know, whatever they want, whatever kind
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of seafood they want, there is a vegan version of.
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And we also have a big poster that shows some of the many vegan seafood
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products that are out there. But generally it's a pretty good, you know, reception.
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People are curious about how to get omegas. That's another way to get omegas.
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And you can get them by. Walnuts is a good source
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of omegas. Or flaxseed oil. Flaxseed, chia seeds,
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hemp seeds. If you really want a concentrated dose, you can
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get algae supplements, which is how fishes get their omegas,
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through algae. So, you know, so is that fish.
448
00:27:37,767 --> 00:27:41,263
Oil the same thing as fish oil, the omega 3s? Is that what you get
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out of fish oil supplements that doctors are always talking about? That's generally what they're
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going for, yes. And that's very controversial that whether
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they're helpful as far as heart conditions go, they're showing that
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basically it's really not. Not helpful as far as that goes. And if
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you. It can easily go rancid, fish oil.
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So especially if you're taking in these gel capsules, you might not even realize
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it's gone rancid. And if it has gone rancid, it can
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form free radicals which are potentially carcinogenic.
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So not only is it not helpful, it's potentially very harmful to
458
00:28:16,051 --> 00:28:19,323
you. So, yeah, it's much better to get it from natural plant
459
00:28:19,379 --> 00:28:22,995
sources. And doctors recommend that often.
460
00:28:23,155 --> 00:28:26,175
I've met my doctor and I'm like vegan, remember?
461
00:28:26,835 --> 00:28:30,611
Yeah. And then of course, it's cruel to
462
00:28:30,643 --> 00:28:34,107
get the fish oil as well. So it's all
463
00:28:34,131 --> 00:28:37,363
cruelty no matter how fish are. If fish are not
464
00:28:37,379 --> 00:28:40,955
in the ocean and they. They're on land, they're with
465
00:28:41,035 --> 00:28:44,403
humans. It's cruelty, plain and simple. Right, right.
466
00:28:44,459 --> 00:28:48,345
It's suffering. So I love how you have the kids section
467
00:28:48,845 --> 00:28:52,781
because I think that that's where it starts. Right? So kids, you know, maybe they've
468
00:28:52,813 --> 00:28:56,277
seen Finding Nemo and they, they, they love fish in that
469
00:28:56,301 --> 00:28:59,837
way. But that whole, like we were talking before with the catch and release
470
00:28:59,901 --> 00:29:03,261
and people taking their kids, like I was, like my father took me
471
00:29:03,293 --> 00:29:06,637
when I was little. It's almost like that rite of passage like that
472
00:29:06,661 --> 00:29:10,133
you have to take your son or daughter fishing and just like you take him
473
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:13,761
to the circus and that kind of a thing. So that's kind of
474
00:29:13,793 --> 00:29:17,525
like an entertainment thing, I would say.
475
00:29:18,585 --> 00:29:21,745
Yeah, people think it's a good way to bond with your child,
476
00:29:21,825 --> 00:29:24,953
which is so bizarre to think going and torturing and killing animals is a good
477
00:29:24,969 --> 00:29:27,513
way to bond. I mean, would you take them to a dog fight or something
478
00:29:27,569 --> 00:29:31,201
like that? That, that used to be legal dog fighting and people thought that was
479
00:29:31,233 --> 00:29:34,673
fine, cock fighting. But you
480
00:29:34,689 --> 00:29:37,993
know, there's so many ways you can non violently bond with a
481
00:29:38,009 --> 00:29:41,591
child out in nature and get them to appreciate nature and respect
482
00:29:41,703 --> 00:29:44,903
animals. If you really want to go fishing, you can go
483
00:29:44,959 --> 00:29:48,263
magnet fishing, which is growing in popularity, or they call it trash
484
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:51,511
fishing. We go in and instead of a hook on the end of the line,
485
00:29:51,543 --> 00:29:54,447
you put a magnet and pull up, you know, whatever kind of metal you can
486
00:29:54,471 --> 00:29:58,255
find down there. And yeah, we've already seen kids doing that. It helps the
487
00:29:58,295 --> 00:30:01,575
environment too. Right? So you're helping instead of harming. Yeah,
488
00:30:01,695 --> 00:30:06,771
yeah, but there's, you know, of. Course, there's so many ways to engage
489
00:30:06,803 --> 00:30:10,015
with children in a helpful, non violent,
490
00:30:10,675 --> 00:30:14,587
peaceful, good way. Right. And then
491
00:30:14,611 --> 00:30:17,987
what about fish in tanks at pet stores or fish that
492
00:30:18,011 --> 00:30:21,323
are given as prizes in the little
493
00:30:21,379 --> 00:30:24,571
bags, which I think is one. It's.
494
00:30:24,723 --> 00:30:28,539
Well, everything's horrible. But you know, when you think about it that closely and
495
00:30:28,587 --> 00:30:33,095
it's just horrible. The fish are given for prizes at
496
00:30:33,655 --> 00:30:37,559
state fairs, things like that, and aquariums. And I
497
00:30:37,567 --> 00:30:41,503
think people love to go see fish at aquariums too. And this is all for
498
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:44,695
entertainment and it also has big consequences, you know.
499
00:30:44,855 --> 00:30:48,207
But tell us more about some of those things. Yes,
500
00:30:48,271 --> 00:30:51,671
well, for tropical fish, really, there's few
501
00:30:51,743 --> 00:30:55,343
species of tropical fish that they can successfully breed in captivity.
502
00:30:55,399 --> 00:30:57,875
So most of these are wild caught fishes.
503
00:30:58,215 --> 00:31:01,035
These populations are already having a hard enough time with,
504
00:31:01,175 --> 00:31:04,723
you know, ocean acidification and the climate collapse and
505
00:31:04,819 --> 00:31:07,811
heating oceans and fishing.
506
00:31:07,963 --> 00:31:11,179
So, you know, if you're taking these animals from the wild and they're very
507
00:31:11,227 --> 00:31:14,795
sensitive animals, and the great majority of these die
508
00:31:14,835 --> 00:31:18,283
before they even get sold. And the ones who do get sold. You know,
509
00:31:18,419 --> 00:31:22,267
many of them die soon after because it's hard to, you know, keep them given
510
00:31:22,331 --> 00:31:25,875
the conditions they need to survive, let alone to thrive.
511
00:31:26,035 --> 00:31:29,571
So it's a very cruel industry. And there actually is a documentary called the
512
00:31:29,603 --> 00:31:32,849
Dark Hobby which explores that and shows, you know, the cruelty
513
00:31:32,897 --> 00:31:36,129
involved in that. And also for Captive
514
00:31:36,177 --> 00:31:39,885
Bread, that's also, you know, it's, it's not really so different from
515
00:31:40,385 --> 00:31:44,313
puppy mills or kitten mills or any of these other things. It's all
516
00:31:44,329 --> 00:31:48,457
about profit. They're breeding these animals. There's, there's a huge mortality
517
00:31:48,521 --> 00:31:52,497
with that and you know, keeping them in, in suboptimal conditions
518
00:31:52,561 --> 00:31:55,417
and then shipping them around and selling them.
519
00:31:55,481 --> 00:31:59,185
And people see the, for example, the Betas in stores in these tiny
520
00:31:59,225 --> 00:32:03,247
little bowls, which is not at all. They think that's their natural type of
521
00:32:03,271 --> 00:32:06,687
habitat, but there's no in, in nature. They're out
522
00:32:06,711 --> 00:32:10,615
in these like, they'll be in like rice paddies or these
523
00:32:10,695 --> 00:32:14,087
extensive water watery grounds
524
00:32:14,191 --> 00:32:18,903
which may be shallow, but they're very extensive. And you
525
00:32:18,919 --> 00:32:23,887
know, it's just keeping. And you know, these are animals who are very curious,
526
00:32:23,951 --> 00:32:28,391
inquisitive and perceptive and keeping them in a little bold. I mean it's just so
527
00:32:28,543 --> 00:32:31,807
incredibly cruel. It's awful. And I don't understand why people,
528
00:32:31,911 --> 00:32:35,311
they buy into that like, oh, these, these are the fish you have to keep
529
00:32:35,343 --> 00:32:38,355
by themselves in a little bowl because that's how they like to live.
530
00:32:38,655 --> 00:32:41,887
No, they do tend to be territorial. The males
531
00:32:41,951 --> 00:32:45,655
tend to be territorial. But you know, they, and you know,
532
00:32:45,695 --> 00:32:48,663
you wouldn't want to keep them with females probably either because you don't want them
533
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:52,271
over breeding. But you know, that doesn't mean you should keep them in a tiny
534
00:32:52,303 --> 00:32:55,551
little container. You know, if you, if they're, if you want to
535
00:32:55,583 --> 00:32:59,337
have fish, we say for people who wanted to have fishes for companion animals,
536
00:32:59,511 --> 00:33:02,973
go to an animal shelter or a rescue group or look on like
537
00:33:02,989 --> 00:33:06,445
Craigslist for people who want to rehome fishes for free
538
00:33:06,605 --> 00:33:10,085
and then give them a decent environment, you know, a tank
539
00:33:10,205 --> 00:33:14,053
with gallons of water and you
540
00:33:14,069 --> 00:33:17,557
know, artificial environment plants and things for
541
00:33:17,581 --> 00:33:20,973
them to explore. And you know, it's possible you could.
542
00:33:21,149 --> 00:33:24,573
These animals can get along with certain other species of animals so they
543
00:33:24,589 --> 00:33:28,171
don't have to kept totally isolated, you know,
544
00:33:28,283 --> 00:33:31,131
and it's a great thing if you do rescue animals and there are a number
545
00:33:31,163 --> 00:33:35,299
of great fish rescue groups out there. So you
546
00:33:35,307 --> 00:33:39,355
know, if another reason to. To adopt and don't
547
00:33:39,395 --> 00:33:42,851
shop. So don't go to pet stores, don't Buy fish from
548
00:33:42,883 --> 00:33:46,771
pet stores. You know, there are rescue groups out there. And if you. Yeah,
549
00:33:46,803 --> 00:33:50,715
you can find. You can find rescue groups for any animal. Because all
550
00:33:50,755 --> 00:33:52,855
animals need to be rescued. Right.
551
00:33:53,515 --> 00:33:57,299
Sadly, they all need to be rescued. But, um. So,
552
00:33:57,347 --> 00:34:01,027
okay, so we know that there are tons
553
00:34:01,051 --> 00:34:04,283
of. I like to talk about food especially. Cause I like to cook.
554
00:34:04,339 --> 00:34:07,875
But so, but there are tons of. I've seen
555
00:34:07,915 --> 00:34:11,083
vegan shrimp in the freeze. Freezer section at
556
00:34:11,099 --> 00:34:13,695
the co op. And I maybe Whole Foods.
557
00:34:14,075 --> 00:34:17,907
There's. There's an option for everything out
558
00:34:17,931 --> 00:34:21,403
there. So talk about that a little bit. And so a lot
559
00:34:21,419 --> 00:34:24,291
of people that come to the table, they are interested in the recipe. So that's
560
00:34:24,323 --> 00:34:28,181
good. That's. That makes me feel really happy that people want
561
00:34:28,213 --> 00:34:31,773
to learn about the alternatives. And what else
562
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:35,221
can people. There's a vegan version for everything. Right? So what else can
563
00:34:35,253 --> 00:34:38,525
people find out there? Yes, there really.
564
00:34:38,605 --> 00:34:42,461
There really is. And you know, increasingly they're
565
00:34:42,493 --> 00:34:45,893
becoming popular even in mainstream grocery stores. You can find like
566
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:49,565
for example, Gardein is a brand that has fishless
567
00:34:49,605 --> 00:34:53,479
fillets and mini crabless cakes. And even in our local grocery
568
00:34:53,527 --> 00:34:56,863
store here, which is not, you know, upscale at all, we can,
569
00:34:56,919 --> 00:35:00,111
we can get them. And if you also like,
570
00:35:00,183 --> 00:35:03,271
Whole Foods will have a type of thing or of course, health food stores.
571
00:35:03,463 --> 00:35:07,071
Wegmans is a good place. Or Harris Teeter,
572
00:35:07,103 --> 00:35:11,135
some of the more upscale grocery stores, if you go to Asian markets,
573
00:35:11,175 --> 00:35:14,703
they often have a lot of vegan seafood products.
574
00:35:14,879 --> 00:35:17,975
And also here we're in Silver Spring,
575
00:35:18,015 --> 00:35:21,565
Maryland, and it also happens to be the world headquarters of
576
00:35:21,605 --> 00:35:24,425
the Seventh Day Adventist Organization.
577
00:35:25,085 --> 00:35:28,165
And they have a wonderful huge supermarket of vegan products,
578
00:35:28,285 --> 00:35:32,501
a lot of vegan seafood. But if you have a Seventh Day Adventist organization
579
00:35:32,573 --> 00:35:35,565
in your area, you know, they might have a. Supply,
580
00:35:35,725 --> 00:35:39,381
a good place to go, something like that. But. And again,
581
00:35:39,533 --> 00:35:43,117
recipes, you know, you can also make. They have recipes for almost anything you can
582
00:35:43,141 --> 00:35:46,979
imagine there's recipes for. And you know, a lot of them use very natural
583
00:35:47,027 --> 00:35:50,859
ingredients and some of them are very simple ingredients. And it's really just
584
00:35:50,987 --> 00:35:54,555
remarkable how people are so imaginative and creating
585
00:35:54,595 --> 00:35:58,147
and replicating flavors and textures. And you know, if you
586
00:35:58,171 --> 00:36:01,531
serve it with cocktail sauce or tartar sauce, vegan tartar sauce,
587
00:36:01,723 --> 00:36:04,947
you know, those are the flavors that people are really looking for. For example,
588
00:36:05,011 --> 00:36:08,931
here in Maryland, crab cakes are so popular. And the flavor
589
00:36:08,963 --> 00:36:12,315
that's really. People look for with that is old Bay seasoning,
590
00:36:12,355 --> 00:36:15,443
which happens to be vegan. So you can make the vegan crab cakes and serve
591
00:36:15,459 --> 00:36:19,463
it with old Bay seasoning. And you know, Tartar sauce or vegan tartar
592
00:36:19,479 --> 00:36:22,991
sauce or cocktail sauce. And, you know, people are getting that. That flavor that
593
00:36:23,023 --> 00:36:26,471
they're after without, you know, harming animals or harming their health
594
00:36:26,503 --> 00:36:30,071
or harming the environment. That's a good point. That old bay seasoning
595
00:36:30,143 --> 00:36:33,775
is like, accidentally vegan. Right. So those are.
596
00:36:33,815 --> 00:36:36,455
There's a lot of things out there that people don't realize. A lot of these
597
00:36:36,495 --> 00:36:40,007
seasonings, like, you know, these animals don't taste
598
00:36:40,031 --> 00:36:44,075
like that unless we season them. Right. So. Right. That's a really
599
00:36:44,115 --> 00:36:46,755
great point. And I think a lot of people will be like, really? That's.
600
00:36:46,795 --> 00:36:50,035
That's vegan, so that's good. I'm glad you said that. Right.
601
00:36:50,075 --> 00:36:53,523
And fish sauce is very popular in Asian restaurants,
602
00:36:53,579 --> 00:36:57,179
but there are commercial brands of fishless fish
603
00:36:57,227 --> 00:37:00,891
sauce available now. And, and also we have recipes for that
604
00:37:00,923 --> 00:37:04,555
on the website. I was doing some research on that because I love sushi.
605
00:37:04,715 --> 00:37:08,371
Um, and when I tell people, because, you know, when you're vegan, you don't say,
606
00:37:08,443 --> 00:37:11,659
oh, I'm going to go get a vegan bagel with vegan cream cheese and drink
607
00:37:11,707 --> 00:37:15,119
vegan milk with it. You know, we don't use the word vegan for
608
00:37:15,167 --> 00:37:18,479
everything. So when people, when I say to somebody who's maybe not vegan,
609
00:37:18,567 --> 00:37:22,087
oh, we're going to go get sushi. Well, but I thought you
610
00:37:22,111 --> 00:37:25,167
don't, you know, like, they try to catch you. Like you're, like you're cheating or
611
00:37:25,191 --> 00:37:28,583
something. You don't cheat on animals at all. But they
612
00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:31,831
try to say, oh, I thought you. You didn't eat fish. And. And I'm like,
613
00:37:31,863 --> 00:37:36,063
well, no, there's alternatives. There's multiple Japanese
614
00:37:36,119 --> 00:37:40,195
restaurants in our area in upstate New York who have so many.
615
00:37:40,525 --> 00:37:43,797
Vegetarian or vegan? The vegetarian but vegan
616
00:37:43,861 --> 00:37:47,821
options for sushi. There's avocado rolls and, and peanut avocado
617
00:37:47,853 --> 00:37:50,845
rolls and asparagus rolls,
618
00:37:50,885 --> 00:37:54,757
and there's tofu. And there's so many different options for that. So even
619
00:37:54,781 --> 00:37:58,485
if you're a sushi lover, you know, you could easily just start
620
00:37:58,525 --> 00:38:02,613
eating, you know, the vegan sushi and move away from
621
00:38:02,789 --> 00:38:06,285
the fish. Right. And. And sushi actually just means
622
00:38:06,365 --> 00:38:09,717
seasoned rice. So it doesn't mean fish or anything about fish.
623
00:38:09,741 --> 00:38:13,441
It just means seasoned rice. And there. There's even a restaurant chain
624
00:38:13,593 --> 00:38:16,785
beyond sushi that's all vegan sushi. It's all vegan sushi.
625
00:38:16,825 --> 00:38:20,545
So again, pretty much whatever you want. There's a vegan version.
626
00:38:20,665 --> 00:38:23,321
Oh, that's awesome. We're going to put all of these things in the books you
627
00:38:23,353 --> 00:38:26,473
mentioned and beyond sushi and a lot of these things in the
628
00:38:26,489 --> 00:38:28,885
show notes. So people have access to everything.
629
00:38:29,305 --> 00:38:32,697
Okay. So I, I'm, I'm hoping. I think this episode is going
630
00:38:32,721 --> 00:38:36,885
to be airing in December. So as an Italian
631
00:38:37,215 --> 00:38:40,687
raised person, the Feast of the Seven
632
00:38:40,751 --> 00:38:43,999
Fishes. So which aren't all fish, right?
633
00:38:44,047 --> 00:38:47,415
Because there's some crustaceans or some. Well, there's clams. I know.
634
00:38:47,455 --> 00:38:50,823
So clams are not. They're mollusks, right? Yes,
635
00:38:50,879 --> 00:38:54,247
so. So I know that, but that's.
636
00:38:54,391 --> 00:38:57,703
I don't remember my family doing it a lot as, like,
637
00:38:57,759 --> 00:39:00,911
my parents, but I remember my grandparents doing that a lot.
638
00:39:01,063 --> 00:39:04,767
And that's a big thing in a lot of. I think it's. It's hard being
639
00:39:04,831 --> 00:39:08,535
Italian and going vegan for your family. Not for, not for ourselves,
640
00:39:08,615 --> 00:39:11,551
but for our family. It is because it's such,
641
00:39:11,623 --> 00:39:14,555
you know, every culture has a lot about food, but,
642
00:39:15,135 --> 00:39:18,823
you know, that, that whole, you know, building,
643
00:39:18,959 --> 00:39:22,567
you know, that Christmas Eve meal around all of
644
00:39:22,591 --> 00:39:25,927
these different types of fish, you know,
645
00:39:26,031 --> 00:39:28,833
if someone said, well, you know, I have to do that,
646
00:39:28,959 --> 00:39:32,629
but there are options out there. So are there. Do you have options?
647
00:39:32,717 --> 00:39:35,853
Do you have, do you talk to people about that? If they talk about that?
648
00:39:35,989 --> 00:39:39,853
Yes, yes, there are recipes. Even for something as complicated
649
00:39:39,909 --> 00:39:43,261
as the Feast of the Seven Fishes, there's vegan versions of that,
650
00:39:43,293 --> 00:39:46,677
and we have that on our, you know, links. What we have are links to
651
00:39:46,741 --> 00:39:50,581
recipes on the website and also links to companies that make vegan seafood
652
00:39:50,653 --> 00:39:54,705
products. And a lot of them have store locators on their website.
653
00:39:55,005 --> 00:39:58,085
So it's so true. I mean, it's just amazing.
654
00:39:58,165 --> 00:40:01,453
When I first started doing this, and I thought, you know, I'll have a seafood
655
00:40:01,509 --> 00:40:04,789
section. And I thought, you know, we'll probably have like five recipes or something.
656
00:40:04,837 --> 00:40:08,397
But I just, I was just amazed. And this was like 10 years ago when
657
00:40:08,421 --> 00:40:11,797
I started this or beyond 10 years ago. I was just
658
00:40:11,821 --> 00:40:15,061
amazed at how much was already out there and more and more all the time.
659
00:40:15,093 --> 00:40:17,933
I mean, there's so many recipes now. And so.
660
00:40:17,989 --> 00:40:21,309
And some of these are very gourmet. And some of they go from simple,
661
00:40:21,357 --> 00:40:25,905
very simple recipes to very gourmet recipes. And it's
662
00:40:25,945 --> 00:40:28,577
true. You can have whatever you want. And, you know, why not serve your family
663
00:40:28,641 --> 00:40:32,977
something humane and healthful and environmentally
664
00:40:33,041 --> 00:40:36,065
sustainable. Yes. Thank you so much.
665
00:40:36,145 --> 00:40:39,801
And thank you for all the work you do because it's such important work.
666
00:40:39,873 --> 00:40:43,361
I just, I think that, you know, by getting that question all the time
667
00:40:43,433 --> 00:40:46,601
and, well, you eat fish, right? I still
668
00:40:46,633 --> 00:40:49,867
don't Understand it. So, you know, you start telling people things like, well, I don't
669
00:40:49,891 --> 00:40:53,059
need anything with a face or with eyes or with a mother, you know,
670
00:40:53,107 --> 00:40:56,459
and it's like, no, we need to talk about what happens to fish,
671
00:40:56,587 --> 00:41:00,115
how they suffer, how they die and how there's no reason
672
00:41:00,155 --> 00:41:03,095
for it. And they're not just objects.
673
00:41:03,475 --> 00:41:07,027
Right. They're sentient beings. Yeah. Science has shown and as
674
00:41:07,131 --> 00:41:10,507
should be obvious to any sensible person, but I think
675
00:41:10,531 --> 00:41:13,811
one thing I wanted to mention that I neglected to mention before is that,
676
00:41:13,843 --> 00:41:17,275
you know, people are looking towards fish farming as a solution
677
00:41:17,315 --> 00:41:21,331
to overfishing, but it's actually a huge part of the problem because such
678
00:41:21,363 --> 00:41:25,003
a huge percentage of wild caught fishes are used as food
679
00:41:25,059 --> 00:41:28,891
for farmed fishes and farmed shrimps and also farmed pigs
680
00:41:28,923 --> 00:41:32,843
and chickens. So, you know, it's also propping up those industries and it's
681
00:41:32,859 --> 00:41:36,307
just wiping out the oceans and obviously it's, you know,
682
00:41:36,411 --> 00:41:40,115
bad for us too. Awful. It's awful for the animals and the
683
00:41:40,155 --> 00:41:43,455
environment and, and we, and I think that that's a great
684
00:41:44,375 --> 00:41:48,327
point because, you know, we see how all of this flows through to
685
00:41:48,351 --> 00:41:51,767
all the other, you know, animals and it's just,
686
00:41:51,831 --> 00:41:55,095
it's just when there's cruelty to one animal, there's cruelty to all animals. You know,
687
00:41:55,135 --> 00:41:58,475
it's all connected, all these food animals.
688
00:41:59,095 --> 00:42:02,695
So we're probably going to have to have you back again
689
00:42:02,735 --> 00:42:06,535
to talk about more things, but I think this is great. We're going to definitely
690
00:42:06,575 --> 00:42:10,503
pull some recipes like I love having, you know,
691
00:42:10,679 --> 00:42:13,839
like a chickpea salad sandwich instead of a tuna. We used to call
692
00:42:13,847 --> 00:42:17,183
it two knot fish, you know, like, and, and I
693
00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:20,423
always tell people about that. It was one of my first things I ate when
694
00:42:20,479 --> 00:42:23,967
as I was becoming vegan. So, but you,
695
00:42:24,031 --> 00:42:27,183
you, you're very active, you're tabling
696
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,831
a lot. Your, your website is chock full of information and I
697
00:42:30,863 --> 00:42:34,887
really want people to go, it's, it's fishfeel.org check
698
00:42:34,911 --> 00:42:38,747
it out, read some of the articles, look at the recipes, we'll post some.
699
00:42:38,931 --> 00:42:42,215
But I ask all of our guests because this is, we're very
700
00:42:42,955 --> 00:42:46,347
animal. We're animal forward. So we want people to learn about, like we
701
00:42:46,371 --> 00:42:49,675
learned about today, about fish and about other sea creatures
702
00:42:49,835 --> 00:42:53,135
and what they endure every day for humans.
703
00:42:53,835 --> 00:42:57,451
But it's, and, but we want people to advocate too. So I have a couple
704
00:42:57,523 --> 00:43:01,295
more questions for you if you don't mind sticking around for a few more minutes.
705
00:43:01,915 --> 00:43:04,015
So the first one is,
706
00:43:05,455 --> 00:43:08,943
well, I'll ask what other people can do. So what
707
00:43:08,999 --> 00:43:12,431
can we do as just humans
708
00:43:12,503 --> 00:43:15,639
or vegans? What can we do to get the message out?
709
00:43:15,687 --> 00:43:18,755
How can we advocate for fish and other sea creatures?
710
00:43:19,055 --> 00:43:22,735
Yes, well, it's really, you know, quite easy to do just whatever
711
00:43:22,815 --> 00:43:25,823
opportunities you have, for example,
712
00:43:25,959 --> 00:43:29,583
serve your family, your friends, vegan seafood products.
713
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:33,305
Let them know how delicious and healthful they are and
714
00:43:33,345 --> 00:43:37,169
how easy they are. We have a very active Facebook
715
00:43:37,257 --> 00:43:41,265
page and you can share our posts, you can write
716
00:43:41,305 --> 00:43:42,685
letters to the editor.
717
00:43:43,865 --> 00:43:47,921
Just touching back on the fairs,
718
00:43:47,953 --> 00:43:51,905
we didn't really get into that very much about where they're giving
719
00:43:52,025 --> 00:43:55,425
fishes away for. Oh yes please. They actually just banned that
720
00:43:55,465 --> 00:43:58,921
in Connecticut and it's banned in a few other states and we have fact sheets
721
00:43:58,953 --> 00:44:02,261
on our website about how you can help to,
722
00:44:02,373 --> 00:44:06,077
to get these bands in your state or your city. Your city also,
723
00:44:06,141 --> 00:44:09,157
you know, just wherever you can do it. Oh, I love that.
724
00:44:09,301 --> 00:44:13,189
Yeah. And you know, share your posts and mainly
725
00:44:13,237 --> 00:44:16,225
just let people know that fishes are sentient beings.
726
00:44:16,685 --> 00:44:19,957
You know, it's a great idea if you can educate
727
00:44:19,981 --> 00:44:23,829
yourself on the issues and just read a few through a few fact sheets
728
00:44:23,957 --> 00:44:27,405
and that other people know that they are, you know, that fishing is cruel,
729
00:44:27,445 --> 00:44:30,837
it's not a sport, the fish are victims, they're not willing participants.
730
00:44:30,981 --> 00:44:34,181
And there's so many other ways to, you know, enjoy yourself out in
731
00:44:34,213 --> 00:44:36,505
nature without harming wildlife.
732
00:44:38,045 --> 00:44:41,421
And there's the wonderful book what a Fish Knows.
733
00:44:41,533 --> 00:44:44,613
We also have T shirts, fish reel T shirts. I'm wearing one right now.
734
00:44:44,629 --> 00:44:47,145
I don't know if you can see it but oh, I love it.
735
00:44:47,845 --> 00:44:51,875
And we have a children's book, an underwater Friend
736
00:44:52,005 --> 00:44:55,311
about a little boy who goes fishing and with his father and he's so excited
737
00:44:55,343 --> 00:44:59,119
to go and they actually catch a fish and then they real he realized how
738
00:44:59,207 --> 00:45:02,783
the fish is suffering so they take the fish home and befriend the
739
00:45:02,799 --> 00:45:05,515
fish and help him and then eventually release him.
740
00:45:05,935 --> 00:45:09,631
So for children that's a great way to help them realize.
741
00:45:09,743 --> 00:45:13,151
And we have coloring books also. We give away coloring books at
742
00:45:13,223 --> 00:45:16,335
some of these fishing youth fishing rodeos. We go there very non
743
00:45:16,375 --> 00:45:19,931
confrontationally and give them the coloring books which are
744
00:45:20,043 --> 00:45:24,043
glad to have and it has an anti phishing message at the end and also
745
00:45:24,099 --> 00:45:29,255
fact sheets and we also hand them out when we're tabling and
746
00:45:30,235 --> 00:45:34,003
getting through to children is a really good way to get this message across.
747
00:45:34,059 --> 00:45:37,083
And lots of times these children will influence their parents too.
748
00:45:37,139 --> 00:45:40,627
So sharing posts on Facebook, writing letters together,
749
00:45:40,731 --> 00:45:43,907
calling into radio shows, talk shows,
750
00:45:44,011 --> 00:45:47,929
just any which way you can get across the message that
751
00:45:48,097 --> 00:45:51,697
Fishes are as sentient as any other beings and
752
00:45:51,721 --> 00:45:55,009
as deserving of respect and compassion as any other sentient
753
00:45:55,057 --> 00:45:57,953
beings. Thank you so much. There's.
754
00:45:58,009 --> 00:46:01,241
There's so many ways to help. And I encourage everyone to go to the website
755
00:46:01,313 --> 00:46:04,553
and look at different ways, different things you can do, ways to
756
00:46:04,569 --> 00:46:08,889
help to educate people. Let's go talk just really quick about
757
00:46:08,977 --> 00:46:12,265
those. The fish that. For prizes. How did that.
758
00:46:12,385 --> 00:46:15,999
That sounds like grassroots activism. Yes. You know,
759
00:46:16,047 --> 00:46:19,743
I think because you can obtain fishes from so inexpensively,
760
00:46:19,799 --> 00:46:22,207
so cheaply, even if you go to the pet store, they have what they called
761
00:46:22,271 --> 00:46:25,983
feeder goldfish that they're selling for like 17 cents apiece. You know, I mean,
762
00:46:26,079 --> 00:46:30,623
these are just. It's a little life and it sold for seven.
763
00:46:30,799 --> 00:46:34,231
Yeah. So these animals are. They can obtain them
764
00:46:34,263 --> 00:46:37,863
so cheaply and, you know, just keeping them in those
765
00:46:37,919 --> 00:46:41,431
conditions, they just keep in big tanks and transporting them around. Just being at a
766
00:46:41,463 --> 00:46:44,983
fair, of course, you can imagine, is so stressful for these
767
00:46:45,039 --> 00:46:48,623
animals. And the reason this ban went across in Connecticut recently,
768
00:46:48,679 --> 00:46:52,927
apparently one state representative was really, you know, promoting it,
769
00:46:53,031 --> 00:46:56,191
and it was his daughter who had been to a fair and she saw
770
00:46:56,263 --> 00:46:59,639
kids just like, you know, tossing the bags of fish
771
00:46:59,687 --> 00:47:03,087
around. And another thing that happens less times, people realize they don't
772
00:47:03,111 --> 00:47:06,759
really want these animals, so they'll dump them out into a waterway and there they
773
00:47:06,807 --> 00:47:10,985
will probably die. But if they five and goldfish are pretty hardy
774
00:47:11,025 --> 00:47:14,897
animals, they'll be competing with other animals and they can become invasive.
775
00:47:14,961 --> 00:47:17,913
And, you know, it's a real problem. It's a huge problem really, in the United
776
00:47:17,969 --> 00:47:21,457
States. So it's just, you know, allowing this is just.
777
00:47:21,561 --> 00:47:25,369
Can you imagine giving away puppies or kittens or, you know, any other animal.
778
00:47:25,457 --> 00:47:29,033
I know to children, to young children who
779
00:47:29,209 --> 00:47:33,025
just, they don't know what to do the, you know, for. To have any animal
780
00:47:33,145 --> 00:47:36,905
as a companion animal, you have to do research. And it's too many people,
781
00:47:36,945 --> 00:47:41,049
they impulse buy rabbits and dogs and cats and. And fish
782
00:47:41,177 --> 00:47:44,633
too, you know, and they think that this is a starter pet. Right.
783
00:47:44,729 --> 00:47:48,129
The goldfish. Well, if you can take care of a goldfish and not kill it,
784
00:47:48,257 --> 00:47:52,153
then that's your starter pet. And that's. It's just, it's. I can't wrap my
785
00:47:52,169 --> 00:47:55,849
head around that. So where else have there been bans on.
786
00:47:55,897 --> 00:47:59,965
On the. Is it animals as prizes or fish specifically?
787
00:48:00,545 --> 00:48:04,225
There are a few other states that have banned fishes as prizes.
788
00:48:04,345 --> 00:48:08,017
In Connecticut now, they already had a ban, but they added fish,
789
00:48:08,161 --> 00:48:11,505
fishes to it. So. But again, that's an example
790
00:48:11,545 --> 00:48:14,889
where you Know the. Why were they left off in the first place,
791
00:48:14,977 --> 00:48:18,857
you know? Exactly. Yeah. So everybody out
792
00:48:18,881 --> 00:48:22,297
there, if you have an opportunity to do any kind of
793
00:48:22,321 --> 00:48:25,513
grassroots activism, get a few friends and try to get a ban on
794
00:48:25,529 --> 00:48:28,857
this, because it's just one of the one other ways they
795
00:48:28,881 --> 00:48:32,649
exploit animals at state fairs, any kind of little.
796
00:48:32,737 --> 00:48:36,127
Even a carnival that just comes, they're going to do that where they're going
797
00:48:36,151 --> 00:48:38,895
to give you a fish as a, as a prize. And it's just. It's just
798
00:48:38,935 --> 00:48:42,487
terrible. It's so irresponsible. So this is. This is
799
00:48:42,511 --> 00:48:45,887
a lot of heavy stuff. So. And you do this every day. I ask all
800
00:48:45,911 --> 00:48:49,319
of our guests, what do you do for
801
00:48:49,367 --> 00:48:53,631
fun? What do you do to avoid burnout?
802
00:48:53,783 --> 00:48:56,751
How do you take breaks from all of this? Because I think that's really important.
803
00:48:56,823 --> 00:49:00,199
So as we're asking people in our podcast, you know, to be advocates,
804
00:49:00,247 --> 00:49:03,487
we want to encourage everybody, you know, to get out
805
00:49:03,511 --> 00:49:06,591
there and do something today for fish. Don't eat fish.
806
00:49:06,623 --> 00:49:09,799
Find an alternative recipe and get out there and fight for every fish in the
807
00:49:09,807 --> 00:49:13,511
world. So, but we want to remind people
808
00:49:13,543 --> 00:49:17,183
that we do have to. We. We're not just. We dedicate our lives to this,
809
00:49:17,319 --> 00:49:20,263
and we're not asking people, maybe that doesn't fit for everybody,
810
00:49:20,319 --> 00:49:24,487
but, you know, how do, how do you take breaks? Because this is sad work.
811
00:49:24,631 --> 00:49:28,143
And, and one, a very upbeat way you can also
812
00:49:28,279 --> 00:49:31,455
promote respect for fishes is to share. You know, there's so many
813
00:49:31,495 --> 00:49:35,815
marvelous videos. Every day, people are posting incredible videos of fish
814
00:49:35,855 --> 00:49:39,287
that they see while they're out snorkeling or scuba diving and,
815
00:49:39,391 --> 00:49:43,087
you know, explaining just how marvelous these animals are. So that's a great
816
00:49:43,111 --> 00:49:45,999
way. You know, we post a lot of that to keep trying to keep things
817
00:49:46,047 --> 00:49:49,639
lighter. Post a lot that also just explaining how. How marvelous these animals
818
00:49:49,687 --> 00:49:53,015
are. But what I like to do, I mean,
819
00:49:53,055 --> 00:49:56,851
fortunately, I really enjoy the work that I do,
820
00:49:56,923 --> 00:50:00,187
but, yes, it, you know, you do need a break from it. And the way
821
00:50:00,211 --> 00:50:03,979
I try to keep sane is I really love to garden.
822
00:50:04,027 --> 00:50:07,483
So I love gardening, as you know, that's. Yeah, unfortunately, I have
823
00:50:07,499 --> 00:50:11,139
a yard, so I love really flamboyant flowers,
824
00:50:11,187 --> 00:50:14,419
so I love to. To garden. That's what. Oh, that's great. I think, See,
825
00:50:14,467 --> 00:50:17,899
I think looking at beautiful things especially that you create does
826
00:50:17,947 --> 00:50:21,331
definitely help. And it, like, you know, energizes you and things like that,
827
00:50:21,363 --> 00:50:24,487
and it's a different outlet. So that's.
828
00:50:24,551 --> 00:50:27,735
That's great. Yes. And it's a great source for, you know, you can
829
00:50:27,775 --> 00:50:31,183
help the the butterflies and the moths and the bees. And it's a great way
830
00:50:31,199 --> 00:50:34,535
to help wildlife too. Oh yes, that's right, it is.
831
00:50:34,695 --> 00:50:37,847
Mary, thank you so much. Is there anything else that
832
00:50:37,871 --> 00:50:40,975
you would like our listeners to know before we,
833
00:50:41,135 --> 00:50:44,639
before we are done for today, but we'll definitely want to have you back.
834
00:50:44,767 --> 00:50:47,951
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having us on. Thank you for
835
00:50:47,983 --> 00:50:51,999
your interest and your concern for fishes and your compassion for all animals and your
836
00:50:52,047 --> 00:50:55,531
work for horses which is so essential. You course vacancing is
837
00:50:55,563 --> 00:50:58,611
big here in Maryland too, so really appreciate your.
838
00:50:58,803 --> 00:51:02,435
A lot of work in Maryland. We have a great team there. Yeah, thank you.
839
00:51:02,595 --> 00:51:06,875
But you know, we certainly invite people to Visit the website fishfield.org
840
00:51:06,995 --> 00:51:10,587
again. We're very active on Facebook. If they'd like to be included
841
00:51:10,731 --> 00:51:14,075
in our mailing list, just send us a an email to
842
00:51:14,115 --> 00:51:17,347
infoishfield.org and if they have
843
00:51:17,371 --> 00:51:21,415
any questions, we'd love to try to answer them and you know, help them
844
00:51:21,455 --> 00:51:24,863
advocate for fishes too. And really appreciate that. Thank you so much.
845
00:51:24,919 --> 00:51:28,655
And see they desperately need all the help we can give them. They do.
846
00:51:28,735 --> 00:51:32,159
And that's why it means so much for me to have you.
847
00:51:32,207 --> 00:51:36,663
And I'm so grateful for your existence in this world and for
848
00:51:36,759 --> 00:51:40,471
the existence of fish. Feel because it, and it's a perfect name
849
00:51:40,583 --> 00:51:43,871
because it just, you know, it just, it says it right there.
850
00:51:43,983 --> 00:51:47,495
And people, people can learn. And thank you so,
851
00:51:47,615 --> 00:51:50,589
so much for what you do and I hope a lot of people learned a
852
00:51:50,597 --> 00:51:54,069
lot of things today and they'll go to your website and take some action for
853
00:51:54,117 --> 00:51:57,573
fish today. So thank you again, Mary and like I
854
00:51:57,589 --> 00:52:02,589
said, I'm sure we'll have you back again to talk about fish
855
00:52:02,637 --> 00:52:06,101
and aquatic animals for me to list out
856
00:52:06,173 --> 00:52:09,293
every aquatic animal there is. But thank
857
00:52:09,309 --> 00:52:12,957
you again so much and I really appreciate you being here and all
858
00:52:12,981 --> 00:52:16,825
you do for fish and all the aquatic animals on this planet.
859
00:52:17,455 --> 00:52:19,435
Thank you very, very much.
860
00:52:26,735 --> 00:52:29,991
Hey there animal lovers. Nicole here from in behalf
861
00:52:30,023 --> 00:52:33,335
of animals. We hope you love our show as much
862
00:52:33,375 --> 00:52:37,471
as you love animals. And if you do, can you take a quick action
863
00:52:37,543 --> 00:52:41,487
to help amplify their voices? Simply follow our podcast
864
00:52:41,591 --> 00:52:45,097
and write us a five star review on Apple Podcasts,
865
00:52:45,201 --> 00:52:48,185
Spotify or wherever you are listening right now.
866
00:52:48,345 --> 00:52:52,057
It helps new listeners discover the show and to learn more about
867
00:52:52,121 --> 00:52:55,625
how they can help animals. Thank you again for
868
00:52:55,665 --> 00:52:59,217
being part of this great community. We appreciate your support.
869
00:52:59,401 --> 00:53:02,793
And remember, be a voice for the animals every
870
00:53:02,849 --> 00:53:04,165
chance you get.
