Nov. 29, 2024

Insights from a New Generation Activist

Insights from a New Generation Activist
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In Behalf of Animals

Ever wondered what sparks someone to take up the cause for animals? In this episode of In Behalf of Animals, Nicole chats with Bailey Chapman, one of the passionate team members at Horseracing Wrongs. Join us as we explore her unique journey into animal activism and discover how she stays motivated and balanced in this challenging work. How can her story inspire your own advocacy? Tune in to find out!

About Bailey:

Bailey Chapman began her journey into veganism, animal rights, and activism in August 2019. Since then, she has become a formidable force for the animals, working alongside national nonprofits such as PETA, the Humane Society of the United States, and Horseracing Wrongs, with whom she currently serves as Communications Specialist. Within her activism, she has been interviewed by Baltimore-area news stations, and Baltimore Magazine, and has had Letters to the Editor published in the Baltimore Sun. Bailey graduated from McDaniel College in 2021 with a Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy and Social Work, and she currently resides in Baltimore, Maryland with her partner and bunny, Willow.

Resources:

Earthlings Film: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0358456/

Dominion Film: https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch

Animal Liberation: https://www.amazon.com/Animal-Liberation-Definitive-Classic-Movement/dp/0061711306

Horseracing Wrongs: https://horseracingwrongs.org/

Transcript
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I'm Nicole Arcello and welcome to In Behalf of Animals.

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The world is always changing, and right now it's

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changing at a faster pace than ever as we

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ride these waves. As advocates, we have to

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stay focused and we can't let the animals get left behind.

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There are a lot of issues and causes in this world,

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but please remember that the animals need our voices

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every day, no matter what.

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We are truly their only hope. As we all

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wish for a more kind and vegan world,

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my friends, the truth is, we have to work for

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it. So today I'm happy to have

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some new, fresh inspiration.

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I have the pleasure of working with Bailey Chapman at Horse Racing

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Wrongs, and she gives me hope that a new generation

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of animal advocates exists and will continue

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to grow. So here's my conversation with Bailey

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Chapman. Hi, Bailey, how are you doing? Nice to

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be here. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you so much.

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So, so it's good to see you. It's been a little while since I've seen

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you, like in person, I think. So anyway, let's get right into it.

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And the first thing, because I already know that you're vegan, tell us your

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vegan story. All right, so mine

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isn't like some like overnight, huge,

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drastic change that just happened. You know, I hear a lot of times people

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saw a documentary and just immediately dropped everything. Mine was more of like

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a personal discovery just because I had never known anyone who was vegan. I wasn't

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surrounded by vegans, nor had I ever even met someone who was vegan.

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So it all started out, I think it really started out with my bunny,

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Willow. So I actually adopted her when I was

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in college. So I graduated college in 2021. So it was my sophomore year of

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college and she kind of opened up my world to

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experiences of animals outside of just dogs and cats.

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I had always been a huge animal lover. I had always grown up with,

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you know, animals in the household. But having a

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rabbit, you know, and spending time with her and really, you know,

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developing a deep emotional bond with her really opened me up

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to the exploitation of animals.

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I thought, look at this little animal who I spend so much of my

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time with, who I have a deep emotional connection with.

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And she and her, you know, animals of her species

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are used in animal testing, are used for

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meat, are used for fur, are used as entertainment.

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And I think that rabbits really show the extent to which humans have

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done serious harms to animal kind.

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I first dabbled in, oh, well, let me only use cruelty free

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cosmetics and cruelty free skincare products.

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Being at college, I also had experimented a little bit

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with not eating meat. It had originally just been because I

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was a little grossed out with some of the meat that was offered at

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our college cafeteria. And eventually, you know, I was just eating burgers

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and hot dogs and I was like, you know what? Why am I eating this

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if I am grossed out by it? Only picking and choosing certain ones

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because they seem less gross, Let me just not eat it.

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And that combined with, you know, spending a lot

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of time with my rabbit, who lived with me at college in my dorm,

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really kind of forced me to do a deep dive into

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my relationship with animals. Not just the ones who I

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live with and coincide with, but the ones who are on my plate,

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the ones who are experimented on for our products, the ones who

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are viewed as entertainment. So it really made

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me have that deeper dive. So I spent a lot of time on social

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media and that was really my main outlet and

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tool for research. I was looking at a lot of posts from

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PETA on Facebook and on Instagram, looking at YouTube

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videos and really just having like a self guided journey

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into what is it to be vegan? How do I have

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a more ethical relationship with animals? Because my entire life I've

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loved animals, but that love was only extended

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necessarily to animals right in front of me or the animals that I

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was physically beside, you know, within my house.

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So spending time and having that emotional connection with my rabbit,

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Willow, really forced me to reconsider my relationship with animals.

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My first ever dive into activism was actually

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before I was even vegan. I was a vegetarian

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at the time. And it was the summer before my sophomore

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year of college or, sorry, before my junior year of college, I believe.

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And I had gone to a restaurant in Baltimore,

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Maryland. It's called Golden West Cafe. And they have vegan options

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as well as, I guess like your meat and your dairy options.

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But I was dating someone at the time and I was like, well, let's go

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try this out. You know, I had never been to a restaurant that had vegan

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options. Let's go see what it's like. And there was a flyer

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on the door to the restaurant and it was for the National Animal Rights

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March in Washington D.C. and it was in the

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August of 2019 that it was scheduled. I took a picture of it

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and I went on the website when I got home, looked at the

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Facebook event and I was like, you know what, I don't know anyone who's

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going to be there. I've never really taken a dive

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into this community besides on Social media.

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I want to go see what this is like. And as a college student,

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you know, someone really blossoming into my own independent

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person. It was kind of, you know, like a little, ooh, let's see

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what it's like. Just that tempting independence and forming

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your own, you know, self expression and your own person.

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So I ended up going to that event. I brought my

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partner at the time who was not vegetarian or vegan,

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and we went and I remember making a sign. I believe

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it had said, I refuse for my tax dollars to pay for

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the experimentation, exploitation and abuse of animals.

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I was really against animal testing, but I never really

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knew how to make a sign. So it had a lot of, a lot of

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big words on it. Not the most legible thing in the world. But I had

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took my sign and I met up with everyone,

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you know, at a Park in D.C. and I marched with

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them. And it was quite an amazing experience coming from someone who

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had never, ever been an activist, hadn't even

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been a vegan. It was just that curiosity that kind of forced

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me out there. And I remember, you know, seeing so

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many signs, you know, chanting alongside these people who I had never

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met before, you know, never having, meeting a vegan in

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real life and all of a sudden being surrounded by thousands of people with

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a street blocked off by police cars. It was,

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it was amazing. Wow, it, it really was an amazing experience.

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And that really, if anything, like,

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elevated my sense of I need to do something, the sense of urgency

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that I have to hold myself to those moral standards.

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I was surrounded by people who are really passionate, are really

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strong, and strive to live the most ethical life they can.

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And that's what I want to do. I love asking people their vegan story

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because I think people love hearing vegan stories.

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And your vegan story is, I feel like it's very

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unique for your age because I

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think that when I went vegan 15

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years ago, I didn't know any other vegans. I kind of.

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My vegan story will be on another episode, but I don't want to go into

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that. But as you are, you know, you're very young person,

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you are still in college and you're exploring this

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from your, your, your bunny at home, which we

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want everyone to, to, to look at those

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animals we call family, right? And then make that connection, which is so hard,

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and then to go to, you see a sign for an animal rights conference and

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march rather, and you're not quite all the way there

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to vegan yet, and you just go and you're like, totally out of your comfort

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zone. And I think that's really, really amazing. And I think.

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Great story. So what inspired you to be an advocate for animal

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rights? So you went to the march. Yeah. And then was

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that like the moment? Was that like the

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moment? It wasn't the moment because it still took me until,

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I believe, November of that year. So the march was in August, and it wasn't

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until November of that year that I went 100% vegan.

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And I unfortunately, am one of those people that don't have, you know, some people

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have that crystal clear date. This is the day it happened. This is the day.

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I don't really either. It was like over the course of a

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couple weeks, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But I can

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definitively say that In November of 2019, I did become

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vegan. But I think what really inspired me to be a

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voice, not just keep it inside, not just say, oh, this is

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my personal choice, and leave it at that.

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I wanted to be a voice about it and to be vocal about it

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and to be loud about it because people don't know

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and people aren't told to question those things.

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I remember being a kid and a lot of times it was just,

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don't question those things. It wasn't, you know, why don't we eat meat?

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Just eat it. Right. It really wasn't something that we questioned.

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That was just how it was. And it's easier sometimes

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to say, that's just how it is and to continue about your day or

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some things are more explicitly hidden. We don't

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necessarily realize that our tax dollars do pay for

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experiments to be done on animals, you know, across the country,

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whether it be rabbits, mice, fish,

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non human apes. So many animals are,

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you know, shuttered into laboratories where we can't even see

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what's going on. And this is what our tax dollars pay for.

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And same with farmed animals. I think that we don't necessarily

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see the extent of it because it is behind closed doors.

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My grandparents live out in rural Maryland and I

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can remember driving there, you know, since I was little, that two hour or

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so drive, you know, through farmland and I'm like, oh, there's, you know,

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there's the cornfield, there's the soy field, but you don't see the chickens.

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And that's because they're a mile away in these giant

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industrial sheds. You wouldn't think that there's millions of lives in

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there. So I think I wanted to become a voice because

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one, we were told not to question it and two, it's so

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hidden. Once you know, these things. How can you be quiet

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about it? Right. Once you know, you know. Right?

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Yeah. So you're. So you're half my age. So I love this because

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I think you're half my age because I'm going to be 50. So I think

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you're around 25, I think. Right? I am 25. Okay. So. So this

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is. This. I love this because you have different perspective on things,

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you know, as. And I wasn't that young when I became Vegan.

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I was 35. So. What, what. Who do

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you see when you're at events, when you're doing different kinds of

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activism? Whether it's at. And we'll get into some horse racing. Wrong stuff

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later. But whether it's a horse racing protest or vigil at a slaughterhouse,

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I know these are a few of the things you've done recently or, or any

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other kind of protest. I know you're in Florida this year, earlier this year,

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and you did a protest there. But who do you see around you?

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Do see people your age around you? Oh, that's a tough

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question. I typically am the youngest

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person, which to me, it made sense when I was in college. You know,

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I'm a student and I am like at that age where, okay, I do have

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that independence. I don't need my mom's permission. So maybe that makes

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sense being the youngest when, you know, you're in college. But post

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college, I was like, okay, I'm going to start seeing high schoolers. I'm going

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to start seeing college students coming out and being active

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alongside me, whether it be at horse racing, wrongs,

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demo, outside of a track, whether it be at a slaughterhouse vigil. I thought

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that there would be, you know, younger people, especially because I think

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with the rise of social media, we have people who are becoming more socially conscious

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and more willing to take those uncomfortable steps to raise

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a voice against, you know, atrocities.

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But I happen to just see people who are older

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than me. Not that there's anything wrong with, you know, seeing a variety

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of people in age. It doesn't matter whether you're 80 or you're 50

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or you're 25, but I don't

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typically see people younger than me. I see men, I see women,

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I see people of a variety of religions and backgrounds and races.

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But I don't typically see those high school and college

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students who you would think would be, you know, wanting to challenge those norms,

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wanting to stand up and put themselves on the front

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lines, boots on the ground, activism. And that's something that

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I really do want to explore. I want to encourage people to do

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so. What would you say to people in early

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20s, in college age, high school? What would you say

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to them? And maybe you can kind of, you know,

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like, talk about maybe why you think that they're not coming out if,

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you know, we don't know. We can't read people's minds. But what would you say?

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What would you say to them? Like. Like to get them involved.

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And how can we get them involved? Younger people?

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One way that I want to start engaging with younger people is I actually

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do plan on going out to college campuses and trying to engage

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with students and having those conversations. Saying,

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one, just doing general vegan outreach, but then saying, okay,

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if you are vegan or if you do believe the things that we are advocating

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for, come out and join us. So that's kind of how I am going

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to, you know, going forward, start having those conversations with younger

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students. I think there's a lot of reasons why people

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aren't getting involved. There always are.

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And whether you see those as reasons or excuses is your own

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personal judgment. I'm not here to make judgments.

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Whether people say it's a financial

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thing because, oh, they have to be working or they

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have to be at school, whether it's a time constraint, whether it's

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no access to transportation, There are ways to combat all

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of those issues. Whether it be, oh, I hear about an

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event, I can't get there, let's carpool. There will always be

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someone willing to pick you up. If it's a financial,

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okay, do you need some gas money? Like everything we have here, all of

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our supplies are provided. You don't need to bring anything. We have everything

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for you. And a big thing I've been hearing about lately,

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too, is there's just bigger issues going on.

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You know, what about people? What about,

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you know, war? What about, you know, all of these crises that

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are happening across the planet right now? And to

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that, that's very, very difficult to address because,

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of course, there are so many atrocities going on every

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second. And with that, of course,

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you should advocate, you know, for those people, for those victim,

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but you have limitless compassion.

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I know that our energy is limited, but you can be compassionate

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and you can care and you can advocate for so many different

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causes. Right. And I know, and that's a

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really good point, because I do think in some people's minds, human issues are

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more important, so the animal issues should take a backseat.

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But it is. It all. It all comes together. You know,

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I know that the people that I protest with and have been protesting

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with for years are out there either donating

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or going to protests and demonstrations

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for other, you know, environmental, A bunch

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of us go to the climate marches with, you know, our vegan sides to

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educate a little bit further about, about how being vegan can help and

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caring about animals and animal agriculture can help with the climate,

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you know, and, and, and, but we are, we do do that kind of,

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you know, we do, you know, support human causes

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as well. So let's talk about balance

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a little bit because I think this is a great question for you.

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I know I'm like, I'm, and we're talking about your age a lot,

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but I think it's really good for, for, for you to be an inspiration to

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people that are younger. And I know, look,

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life, work, life activism, balance is

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not easy. I'm always working on it. But how do you balance

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activism with your personal life and other responsibilities with your job and

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your work with horse racing wrongs is also activism as well. So, you know,

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and then you do other activism. So how do you, how do you do that

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balance in your life? And because I know that that could be hard

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for people too, especially younger people if they're trying to study, get a job and

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be active at the same time. And I know there's a lot of pressure out

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there to be the best of everything. Right from social media, there's influencers

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to be the best at everything, to be the best activist, to be the best

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everything. So how do you do it? How do you balance everything out?

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Oh, okay. So I guess it's kind of like a two part or I almost

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have like a two part answer. Yeah. One is that there's so many different

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forms of activism. Activism doesn't necessarily have to be boots on

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the ground, protesting, marching, doing huge demonstrations.

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Sometimes it can just be wearing a shirt with your message

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on it. Sometimes it can be posting something on social media or even just sharing

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something on social media. Sometimes it could be,

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oh, you know, we're doing an alert or an action to

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contact your legislators or contact the media outlet

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and the organization will have all of those resources

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right there. So you can just copy and paste. It could be signing a petition,

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it could be, you know, engaging in just small talk with your friends and

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family. It doesn't always have to be this huge time consuming

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or energy, you know, sucking event. Sometimes it

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really just is armchair activism. And there's nothing wrong with

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that if that is what you have the time and physical and mental ability

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to do. The second answer to that is. So you

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do want to get into that boots on the ground activism.

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It did. It's definitely been a balancing act for me over the years.

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I remember when I first got into activism, it was bang,

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bang, bang, you know, multiple times a week. I'm not doing

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slaughterhouse vigils, protesting every single second

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of my life. I wanted to do something right. But as

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I've kind of been on this vegan activism

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journey, I've learned to say, you know, this is my work time,

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this is my personal care time, and this is the time that

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I dedicate to the animals. Of course, it doesn't mean that there's, you know,

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flexing or that there's, you know, times where I'm like, oh, let me add

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in a little bit of this, or, oh, let me do this quick action.

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But usually, at least for me, I have my Saturdays.

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I told my work, this is my volunteer day, so I can't

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work. I'm volunteering. And luckily, a lot of animal rights groups

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are 501c3 nonprofits. So it is volunteering.

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It is. You're volunteering your time for the animals, so.

316
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Exactly, yeah. So Saturdays, I've always had, you know,

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reserved. And I have that conversation with my work. I have that

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conversation with my partner and my family. And I always, you know,

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set aside Saturday as okay. If I want to do an in person event,

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this is the day that I'm going to do it. But of course, you know,

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there's flexibility, there's life, but that's something that I

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use to balance it. And then doing that, you know, computer and social media

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activism in the afternoons and in the evenings.

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And that's how I've kind of found that balance. But of course, there's something

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different for everyone. I don't, you know, you don't necessarily have to reserve one entire

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day of the week to activism. You know, it really can all be done from

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the comfort of your home, from your cell phone, from your computer,

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and just from having conversations one on one with people. So it's learning

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how involved you want to get, what you have the ability to do, and then

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how to integrate that into your daily life. I think that's a great answer.

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And I also think that a lot of people feel a lot of pressure that

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they have to be an influencer while they're

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being an activist. Like, they have to do these live videos and they have to.

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And I think that burns people out a lot trying to be

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do they already have maybe a family and a job, and then they're like,

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Oh, I have to do live videos at this protest and I got to post

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all the time and I have to do all these things. But you can share

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posts, you can, you know, make a phone call. There's sometimes

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I. There's actions to call designers

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and ask them to go for free. And that's a quick, quick action.

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And you don't need to have a lot of knowledge doing this because once

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your voice, once you tell yourself like this is the.

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For the animals, it's so much easier because it takes yourself out

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of it. And I think that's a lot of what we need to do also

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is kind of take ourselves out of it and what people might think about us

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and just go out there and be their voice. Because animals

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can't be their own voice. Right. So all their social justice movements,

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they people, the oppressed, could advocate for themselves.

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Patrick and I have been talking about this a lot and we put a few

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little videos out on it, but the animals can't.

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Well, what brought. Let's. We'll plug horse racing wrongs a little bit. So you

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are a communication specialist for horse racing wrongs. So what

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drew you to horse racing wrongs

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and our mission? And what was your first

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interaction? You had a. You came to a horse racing wrongs

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protest. Right. So when did you do that for the first time?

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So my first horse racing wrongs protest,

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I believe it was June 6,

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2020, I believe. And that was a protest at

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Laurel park and that was mid Covid. So mass

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lockdowns. It was definitely an interesting landscape

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00:21:50,887 --> 00:21:54,527
to navigate. So yeah, if you needed a little push.

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I somehow became an activist during a lockdown in the pandemic.

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And that's when a lot of people stopped being active. A lot of people stopped

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being active like completely in 2020. So I

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don't know what it was, if it was the political landsc.

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If it was everyone just getting stressed and burned out about

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the virus and Covid and all that. And. But so that's

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a really interesting time for you to, to really, you know,

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to. To come out to. To a protest there.

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And I want to point out, you know, when you went to the march,

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you weren't vegan yet. So I want everyone listening

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to always remember that everyone is welcome

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at a protest. We always have allowed anyone and

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everyone to be at our horse racing wrongs protest when we did circus fur or

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whatever. And you don't vegan yet, so you'll

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probably be vegan soon after. But maybe that's what you're already looking for.

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But anyway, you can just join and you can just be there for

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that animal. And I think that's really important because

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that's how you start looking at the bigger picture. So sorry to

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interrupt on there, but I wanted. No, that's totally fine. That was.

382
00:23:00,271 --> 00:23:03,703
So that's. That was your introduction to horse racing?

383
00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:07,407
Yes. I just happened to stumble upon it. I don't know how,

384
00:23:07,471 --> 00:23:10,847
but I just happened to stumble upon it on Facebook. I guess it was kind

385
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of. Because I, you know, kept searching and was trying to, you know, immerse myself

386
00:23:14,143 --> 00:23:18,015
in animal activism and veganism. And I think that somehow

387
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Facebook algorithm just. And split it right into my feed.

388
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And I did not know a single person. I did not know the organizer.

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I don't even know if I was familiar with horse racing wrongs yet, but I

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was like, oh, that's, you know, somewhat close to where I live. Let me

391
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go and try it out. And I actually met

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an amazing, amazing group of individuals. I met

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the person who was ultimately my mentor, Jennifer Sully, who organized

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that protest. And the very next day, she invited me to National

395
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Animal Rights Day. So it ended up going from one horse racing

396
00:23:51,129 --> 00:23:54,529
wrongs protest to a whole weekend of activism.

397
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Awesome. But that was my first ever experience with horse racing

398
00:23:58,353 --> 00:24:01,529
wrongs. And since then, it's been really a great

399
00:24:01,617 --> 00:24:05,121
journey. I've been interviewed,

400
00:24:05,193 --> 00:24:09,161
I've written letters to the editor. I've been at protests

401
00:24:09,193 --> 00:24:13,325
in multiple different states, in Delaware, in Maryland, in New York,

402
00:24:13,825 --> 00:24:17,601
and really have had an amazing opportunity to

403
00:24:17,793 --> 00:24:21,169
be an advocate for the animals. And it's definitely pushed me out of

404
00:24:21,177 --> 00:24:24,465
my comfort zone many times, but I've also learned so,

405
00:24:24,505 --> 00:24:28,537
so much. Horses are so lucky to have you advocate for them

406
00:24:28,721 --> 00:24:32,451
all the time. So what tips do

407
00:24:32,483 --> 00:24:35,859
you have for people who. Well, we've already talked about it a

408
00:24:35,867 --> 00:24:39,587
little bit, but, like, people who maybe who want

409
00:24:39,611 --> 00:24:42,627
to be active, they want to advocate more,

410
00:24:42,691 --> 00:24:45,995
but they don't know what to do. Say somebody say, I'm gonna.

411
00:24:46,035 --> 00:24:48,803
I'll give you a couple questions. So. So say someone said, well, I really would

412
00:24:48,819 --> 00:24:52,255
like to go to a protest, but I don't think it's effective,

413
00:24:52,675 --> 00:24:56,075
something like that, or that they don't think that. That what

414
00:24:56,115 --> 00:24:59,291
they're going to do matters. What. What would you. What would you say to that?

415
00:24:59,323 --> 00:25:01,935
What kind of inspiration or tips could you give somebody?

416
00:25:02,745 --> 00:25:06,417
I just had a conversation somewhat related to

417
00:25:06,441 --> 00:25:09,945
this yesterday. We received, or I had received a message saying,

418
00:25:09,985 --> 00:25:13,801
okay, what's changed with Fort Racing in the last 10 years? And to

419
00:25:13,833 --> 00:25:18,209
that I say so much. I mean, change is slow but

420
00:25:18,297 --> 00:25:21,937
it is statistically happening. If you

421
00:25:21,961 --> 00:25:25,897
think your protest doesn't do anything, if you think, you know, signing a

422
00:25:25,921 --> 00:25:29,589
petition doesn't do anything, I challenge you to think otherwise.

423
00:25:29,677 --> 00:25:33,005
Because every little thing we do each and every

424
00:25:33,045 --> 00:25:35,505
single day is a step in the right direction.

425
00:25:36,285 --> 00:25:39,789
If a protest is not your thing at all,

426
00:25:39,877 --> 00:25:43,061
that's totally fine. But if you do and are questioning, you know,

427
00:25:43,173 --> 00:25:46,293
how can I do things differently or how, you know, does this really make a

428
00:25:46,309 --> 00:25:49,589
difference or does this really matter? There are people, you know, just walking

429
00:25:49,637 --> 00:25:52,965
by, even if they don't engage with you, they see you and you can put,

430
00:25:53,045 --> 00:25:56,335
plant that seed in their head that, you know, asks them to, you know,

431
00:25:56,375 --> 00:26:00,175
evaluate, to further question things, to look things up and to research

432
00:26:00,295 --> 00:26:02,955
and, you know, ask those important questions.

433
00:26:03,455 --> 00:26:07,527
Every little thing you do matters. And there is a space for everyone in activism.

434
00:26:07,671 --> 00:26:11,127
So even if you are uncomfortable with a protest or you don't see yourself going

435
00:26:11,151 --> 00:26:14,511
to a protest, regardless of your ability, of your

436
00:26:14,543 --> 00:26:17,535
time commitment, you can be an activist.

437
00:26:17,695 --> 00:26:21,137
You can do, you know, sharing and posting on social

438
00:26:21,201 --> 00:26:25,105
media. You can, if you're an artist, you can do artwork,

439
00:26:25,185 --> 00:26:27,765
if you are a musician making music.

440
00:26:28,745 --> 00:26:32,217
There are just so many ways that you can get

441
00:26:32,281 --> 00:26:35,809
active, whether it be in person, online, using your

442
00:26:35,857 --> 00:26:39,761
special skills and your talents. And if you don't know where to start,

443
00:26:39,913 --> 00:26:43,681
reach out, say something and someone will most certainly help

444
00:26:43,713 --> 00:26:47,633
you. A variety of nonprofits, including horse racing Wrongs, will provide

445
00:26:47,689 --> 00:26:51,007
you the materials that you need, will provide you the mentorship that

446
00:26:51,031 --> 00:26:54,959
you need in order to get active. Whether it be, you know,

447
00:26:55,087 --> 00:26:58,511
what are some online actions I can take from home or I

448
00:26:58,543 --> 00:27:02,071
want to say something, I want to be an in person presence at

449
00:27:02,103 --> 00:27:05,791
my local track because I'm tired of my tax dollars paying

450
00:27:05,823 --> 00:27:08,471
for this and it being unquestioned.

451
00:27:08,623 --> 00:27:11,975
So just reach out. There are so many things that you can do

452
00:27:12,015 --> 00:27:15,697
and there are so many resources and people willing to help you and

453
00:27:15,721 --> 00:27:19,385
get you started. That's a great answer. And I think that people

454
00:27:19,425 --> 00:27:22,833
think they need to be an expert in it to do any

455
00:27:22,889 --> 00:27:26,305
kind of activism. And you don't. I remember when I was picking up the phone

456
00:27:26,345 --> 00:27:29,721
to do a call action to one of the designers to ask them to go

457
00:27:29,753 --> 00:27:32,553
for free. And I was, I pick, I like dialed the number and I was

458
00:27:32,569 --> 00:27:35,097
like, wait a minute, I can't do this. I'm not an expert in this.

459
00:27:35,121 --> 00:27:37,777
And I said, wait a minute, it's for the animals. I'm just going to ask

460
00:27:37,801 --> 00:27:41,513
them to go fur free. This is animal cruelty. There's other designers have gone fur

461
00:27:41,569 --> 00:27:44,969
free and animal skin free. And we're asking you to do this. And then that

462
00:27:44,977 --> 00:27:48,661
was it. You know, it was so easy. So I just took, like,

463
00:27:48,693 --> 00:27:51,869
myself out of it, all my, you know, issues. And, you know,

464
00:27:51,917 --> 00:27:55,141
I still get nervous doing things. I still get nervous on the bullhorn. You know,

465
00:27:55,173 --> 00:27:58,581
I think it's. We're always in our, you know, in an uncomfortable

466
00:27:58,653 --> 00:28:02,797
place. But I want to ask this because people ask me this in interviews

467
00:28:02,861 --> 00:28:06,437
too, when I talk about horse racing, dogs. How do you stay motivated and

468
00:28:06,501 --> 00:28:09,945
positive in, in the face of,

469
00:28:11,055 --> 00:28:14,479
you know, the world that we're in and animal rights advocacy?

470
00:28:14,647 --> 00:28:18,223
How do you stay motivated and positive? People ask me this a lot too,

471
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:21,955
so. Okay, so I wanted to know because you're very positive.

472
00:28:22,295 --> 00:28:26,215
I try. The first thing is celebrate the

473
00:28:26,255 --> 00:28:29,351
small wins and the small victories. You are not going

474
00:28:29,383 --> 00:28:32,863
to end all animal exploitation by tomorrow

475
00:28:32,999 --> 00:28:37,055
because it is so entangled in our culture

476
00:28:37,135 --> 00:28:41,041
and in the human experience. Animal exploitation and the

477
00:28:41,073 --> 00:28:44,241
abuse and use of others for our gain is

478
00:28:44,273 --> 00:28:47,377
something that unfortunately our civilization has been built upon.

479
00:28:47,521 --> 00:28:51,153
So you're not going to change it overnight, but you are going to slowly,

480
00:28:51,209 --> 00:28:55,145
slowly change. Hearts change the thoughts and minds of individuals.

481
00:28:55,265 --> 00:28:58,985
You know, first maybe your family and friends or strangers on the street.

482
00:28:59,105 --> 00:29:02,969
Then it may be our politicians and our legislators and

483
00:29:03,017 --> 00:29:06,331
our lawmakers, and then eventually you may be making that

484
00:29:06,433 --> 00:29:09,727
big change that you want to see. But it is going to take a lot

485
00:29:09,751 --> 00:29:13,471
of time and celebrate those little wins. In regards

486
00:29:13,503 --> 00:29:17,735
to horse racing, there have been tracks, there have been numerous

487
00:29:17,775 --> 00:29:22,199
tracks that have completely shut down operations since2045.

488
00:29:22,247 --> 00:29:25,367
I'm 20 from2045 tracks have closed.

489
00:29:25,391 --> 00:29:28,951
Yeah, three this year and then Golden

490
00:29:28,983 --> 00:29:32,369
Gate. So that was huge. We've personally seen,

491
00:29:32,487 --> 00:29:36,085
you know, these big races. Attendance is plummeting. And when

492
00:29:36,125 --> 00:29:40,229
people are walking in those doors, it's not always a complete

493
00:29:40,317 --> 00:29:43,965
ignorance or, you know, aggression towards protesters.

494
00:29:44,085 --> 00:29:47,701
Sometimes they are curious and sometimes the people driving by,

495
00:29:47,853 --> 00:29:51,333
I mean, just in my few years of activism, you know, standing outside of

496
00:29:51,349 --> 00:29:54,749
Pimlico Racecourse, at first it was a lot of middle fingers.

497
00:29:54,877 --> 00:29:58,109
There are people screaming, you know, rolling down their windows and screaming.

498
00:29:58,197 --> 00:30:01,245
Obviously you can't really hear what they say because going, you know, 30 plus miles

499
00:30:01,285 --> 00:30:04,933
per hour down the road. But originally

500
00:30:05,109 --> 00:30:08,213
that was a little bit more statistically common.

501
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:11,189
Nowadays it is maybe one middle finger,

502
00:30:11,317 --> 00:30:14,533
but so many supportive honks, so many thumbs up,

503
00:30:14,589 --> 00:30:17,837
so many key signs, so many smiles and waves,

504
00:30:17,981 --> 00:30:21,565
people rolling down their windows saying, what can we do? Or like,

505
00:30:21,605 --> 00:30:25,173
oh, can we take a leaflet? Do you have Anything. Or if I am offering

506
00:30:25,189 --> 00:30:28,303
them a leaflet, sometimes they'll, you know, reach into their glove box and say,

507
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:31,407
I already have one. Well, at least they're holding onto it for future

508
00:30:31,471 --> 00:30:35,039
reference. Yeah, so that's, that's a great

509
00:30:35,087 --> 00:30:38,031
point too. So there's that answer. That person who reached out to you and said,

510
00:30:38,063 --> 00:30:41,567
what has changed in the past 10 years? Well, when you're advocating for the end

511
00:30:41,631 --> 00:30:45,271
to something, first it's going to take longer. Right? So when you're the

512
00:30:45,343 --> 00:30:49,127
we're the end animal testing, the end for. Of prefer

513
00:30:49,311 --> 00:30:52,359
for the end of, of people eating animals.

514
00:30:52,447 --> 00:30:55,743
These things take a really, really long time. Progress is slow.

515
00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:59,307
But like you said, celebrating wins are

516
00:30:59,371 --> 00:31:03,315
so important and activism feels

517
00:31:03,435 --> 00:31:07,267
good. So do you, do you feel good after you've

518
00:31:07,291 --> 00:31:11,371
been out there protesting? And I think a lot of people, they don't

519
00:31:11,403 --> 00:31:14,995
know how good that feels. And that's, hey, we can be a little selfish

520
00:31:15,035 --> 00:31:18,667
and want to feel good, right? So yeah, it does feel good to be

521
00:31:18,691 --> 00:31:22,267
out there holding a sign or, you know, doing a speak out

522
00:31:22,291 --> 00:31:25,403
and educating people. And I think that's really important too. And I

523
00:31:25,419 --> 00:31:28,963
think it's certainly uncomfortable in the moment. Like you're going to be scared, you're going

524
00:31:28,979 --> 00:31:31,971
to be anxious. Those are normal human experiences,

525
00:31:32,123 --> 00:31:35,935
especially when you're putting yourself out there and challenging, you know, social norms.

526
00:31:36,475 --> 00:31:39,819
But I think obviously you're going to feel a lot better if

527
00:31:39,827 --> 00:31:43,163
you're actually using your voice than just bottling up this feeling saying,

528
00:31:43,299 --> 00:31:46,475
I see the oppression that animals are experiencing.

529
00:31:46,595 --> 00:31:49,651
I am aware of what's going on in factory farming, of what's going on in

530
00:31:49,683 --> 00:31:53,429
laboratories, of what's going on in the horse racing industry and

531
00:31:53,477 --> 00:31:57,101
staying silent and just keeping all those truths, you know,

532
00:31:57,133 --> 00:32:01,117
just locked up away and not saying anything. That's certainly not

533
00:32:01,141 --> 00:32:04,541
going to make you feel any better. Knowing and holding on to

534
00:32:04,573 --> 00:32:07,997
these truths isn't going to change things. Right? To make change,

535
00:32:08,061 --> 00:32:11,373
we have to share the truth, we have to educate, we have

536
00:32:11,389 --> 00:32:14,861
to advocate, we have to make people aware. And I think in

537
00:32:14,893 --> 00:32:17,749
doing that, that is how we instigate change.

538
00:32:17,917 --> 00:32:21,613
Not just saying, okay, I know these truths, but just say I know these truths

539
00:32:21,709 --> 00:32:25,621
and I need the world to know as well. Because this industry and

540
00:32:25,653 --> 00:32:29,981
all of these industries flourish under, you know, people's blindness,

541
00:32:30,053 --> 00:32:33,669
under the fact that people are willing to not question these things, right?

542
00:32:33,717 --> 00:32:36,749
But to have those hard conversations, to question these things,

543
00:32:36,877 --> 00:32:40,141
it makes you feel good because you know that once people

544
00:32:40,173 --> 00:32:44,191
are aware, they don't want to support it and you are

545
00:32:44,263 --> 00:32:48,223
directly fighting the enemy, you know, in the industry by

546
00:32:48,399 --> 00:32:51,743
telling the truth, by saying, this is what they're covering up

547
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:55,111
from you, this is what you're paying for. This is what your tax dollars support.

548
00:32:55,263 --> 00:32:58,927
Now that you know, what are you going to do with that information and

549
00:32:58,951 --> 00:33:02,247
how are you going to use that information to better be a voice for the

550
00:33:02,271 --> 00:33:06,127
animals? Thank you so much. Is there anything

551
00:33:06,231 --> 00:33:09,675
else you'd like to share with our audience today?

552
00:33:10,305 --> 00:33:13,625
Any. Oh, gosh, there are so many things that I can say.

553
00:33:13,705 --> 00:33:17,249
Any inspiration or any. I always like to let

554
00:33:17,337 --> 00:33:20,825
let vegans know that, you know, you can save more

555
00:33:20,865 --> 00:33:24,345
animals by being active and putting yourself out there.

556
00:33:24,425 --> 00:33:27,873
And if you're, if you, and if you find yourself com.

557
00:33:27,969 --> 00:33:31,681
Complaining about an industry that hurts animals,

558
00:33:31,833 --> 00:33:35,913
there is something you can do. So take the complaint and turn that into action.

559
00:33:36,009 --> 00:33:38,537
But is there anything else that you would like?

560
00:33:38,641 --> 00:33:40,285
Yeah, I mean, I guess.

561
00:33:42,865 --> 00:33:47,713
I mean, all I can really do is reiterate. Get active, be uncomfortable.

562
00:33:47,849 --> 00:33:51,073
Put yourself in situations that you normally wouldn't be in. You see

563
00:33:51,089 --> 00:33:55,137
a sign for a march, go to that march. Even if you aren't fully

564
00:33:55,241 --> 00:33:59,041
vegan, if you, even if you aren't an activist, you are welcome in these

565
00:33:59,073 --> 00:34:02,705
spaces. We will give you the materials and the strength

566
00:34:02,865 --> 00:34:06,585
and the compassion you need to feel welcome and to feel like you can

567
00:34:06,625 --> 00:34:10,063
be an advocate for the animals. Because like you said, you know,

568
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:13,783
animals can't, you know, go and lobby for their rights. They can't

569
00:34:13,839 --> 00:34:17,479
go and hold their abusers accountable in the court of

570
00:34:17,527 --> 00:34:21,087
law. That is what we need to do. And we need to hold

571
00:34:21,151 --> 00:34:25,039
these abusive industries accountable for what they have done to the animals.

572
00:34:25,207 --> 00:34:28,439
And knowing these truths, knowing how

573
00:34:28,487 --> 00:34:31,831
these industries function and flourish, especially under, you know,

574
00:34:31,863 --> 00:34:35,427
people turning a blind eye or, you know, throwing a sheet over and

575
00:34:35,451 --> 00:34:38,667
walking away, we need to pull back that sheet and we

576
00:34:38,691 --> 00:34:41,995
need to show the world and we need to advocate. So whether,

577
00:34:42,075 --> 00:34:45,603
regardless of your ability, regardless of your time commitment, you can do

578
00:34:45,619 --> 00:34:48,659
this. Just reach out and we will gladly

579
00:34:48,707 --> 00:34:51,267
invite you into the world of animal activism.

580
00:34:51,451 --> 00:34:55,067
You are needed. You are wanted, and the animals

581
00:34:55,131 --> 00:34:58,571
need you, Right? Yes. And it's not, it's not easy.

582
00:34:58,603 --> 00:35:01,107
It's not easy for me all the time, and I know it's not easy for

583
00:35:01,131 --> 00:35:04,643
you. It's not easy. We, you know, we're positive people,

584
00:35:04,699 --> 00:35:08,151
you and I, and, and, you know, we, we do stay positive.

585
00:35:08,223 --> 00:35:12,191
We're, we are motivated most of the time. And I think that,

586
00:35:12,263 --> 00:35:15,527
that people just think it comes naturally, but it really doesn't. It's really, it's a

587
00:35:15,551 --> 00:35:18,047
really really hard thing, hard thing to do.

588
00:35:18,191 --> 00:35:22,007
So. So if somebody right now said, I want to learn more about being

589
00:35:22,071 --> 00:35:25,807
vegan, I want to learn more about, give me

590
00:35:25,871 --> 00:35:28,991
a couple books or documentary or something that maybe somebody could go

591
00:35:29,023 --> 00:35:31,975
watch Right now, if they're watching this on YouTube, they can go in the YouTube

592
00:35:32,015 --> 00:35:35,867
search bar and find something. What would you recommend right here? Well, look, you happen

593
00:35:35,891 --> 00:35:39,283
to see my bookshelf right behind me. I have a whole assortment. There are so

594
00:35:39,299 --> 00:35:42,059
many different materials out there. Whether it be videos,

595
00:35:42,227 --> 00:35:45,923
books, I recommend. I will always

596
00:35:45,979 --> 00:35:50,171
recommend Earthlings and Dominion. Those are two great documentaries

597
00:35:50,243 --> 00:35:53,459
because they, you know, really unveil the truths of these industries.

598
00:35:53,627 --> 00:35:57,163
They are hard, but it's the truth and we need to see

599
00:35:57,179 --> 00:36:00,829
the truth. Especially if this is what you are, you know, financially, you know,

600
00:36:00,917 --> 00:36:04,213
paying for, or if you know, this is what you're consuming, this is

601
00:36:04,229 --> 00:36:07,917
what you're putting into your body, you need to be aware. So those

602
00:36:07,941 --> 00:36:11,645
are two great documentaries. I always advocate for reaching out

603
00:36:11,685 --> 00:36:14,845
to nonprofits, whether it be horse racing rungs,

604
00:36:14,885 --> 00:36:18,785
whether it be PETA, whether it be a local or grassroots organization,

605
00:36:19,205 --> 00:36:21,781
reach out, use any of those resources.

606
00:36:21,893 --> 00:36:25,261
Especially, you know, because there are so many free resources,

607
00:36:25,413 --> 00:36:29,355
books. I always recommend the classic Animal Liberation by Peter Singer.

608
00:36:29,855 --> 00:36:33,879
But there, there's just a multitude of books, a multitude of

609
00:36:33,967 --> 00:36:37,303
documentaries. There's so many resources. Or just Google how to

610
00:36:37,319 --> 00:36:40,675
go vegan, right? There you go. Find something, right?

611
00:36:41,175 --> 00:36:45,111
Most certainly. So thank you so much for being on the

612
00:36:45,143 --> 00:36:48,795
podcast today and it was so great to chat with you

613
00:36:49,095 --> 00:36:52,655
and we will definitely put some of that information in the show notes.

614
00:36:52,815 --> 00:36:56,847
And thank you so much. Great. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

615
00:36:56,991 --> 00:36:59,675
Thank you. All right, bye bye.

616
00:37:06,335 --> 00:37:10,095
Hey, Nicole here from in behalf of animals,

617
00:37:10,255 --> 00:37:14,159
we hope you love our show as much as you love animals.

618
00:37:14,287 --> 00:37:18,679
And if you do, can you take a quick action to help amplify their voices?

619
00:37:18,847 --> 00:37:22,401
Simply follow our podcast and write us a five star

620
00:37:22,473 --> 00:37:26,121
review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and wherever you are

621
00:37:26,153 --> 00:37:29,321
listening right now. It helps new listeners discover the

622
00:37:29,353 --> 00:37:33,393
show to learn more about how they can join our community and

623
00:37:33,449 --> 00:37:37,441
help animals too. Thank you for listening and remember to

624
00:37:37,473 --> 00:37:39,705
be their voice every chance you get.