Insights from a New Generation Activist

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I'm Nicole Arcello and welcome to In Behalf of Animals.

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The world is always changing, and right now it's

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changing at a faster pace than ever as we

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ride these waves. As advocates, we have to

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stay focused and we can't let the animals get left behind.

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There are a lot of issues and causes in this world,

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but please remember that the animals need our voices

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every day, no matter what.

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We are truly their only hope. As we all

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wish for a more kind and vegan world,

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my friends, the truth is, we have to work for

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it. So today I'm happy to have

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some new, fresh inspiration.

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I have the pleasure of working with Bailey Chapman at Horse Racing

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Wrongs, and she gives me hope that a new generation

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of animal advocates exists and will continue

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to grow. So here's my conversation with Bailey

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Chapman. Hi, Bailey, how are you doing? Nice to

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be here. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you so much.

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So, so it's good to see you. It's been a little while since I've seen

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you, like in person, I think. So anyway, let's get right into it.

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And the first thing, because I already know that you're vegan, tell us your

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vegan story. All right, so mine

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isn't like some like overnight, huge,

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drastic change that just happened. You know, I hear a lot of times people

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saw a documentary and just immediately dropped everything. Mine was more of like

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a personal discovery just because I had never known anyone who was vegan. I wasn't

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surrounded by vegans, nor had I ever even met someone who was vegan.

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So it all started out, I think it really started out with my bunny,

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Willow. So I actually adopted her when I was

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in college. So I graduated college in 2021. So it was my sophomore year of

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college and she kind of opened up my world to

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experiences of animals outside of just dogs and cats.

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I had always been a huge animal lover. I had always grown up with,

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you know, animals in the household. But having a

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rabbit, you know, and spending time with her and really, you know,

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developing a deep emotional bond with her really opened me up

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to the exploitation of animals.

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I thought, look at this little animal who I spend so much of my

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time with, who I have a deep emotional connection with.

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And she and her, you know, animals of her species

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are used in animal testing, are used for

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meat, are used for fur, are used as entertainment.

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And I think that rabbits really show the extent to which humans have

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done serious harms to animal kind.

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I first dabbled in, oh, well, let me only use cruelty free

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cosmetics and cruelty free skincare products.

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Being at college, I also had experimented a little bit

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with not eating meat. It had originally just been because I

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was a little grossed out with some of the meat that was offered at

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our college cafeteria. And eventually, you know, I was just eating burgers

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and hot dogs and I was like, you know what? Why am I eating this

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if I am grossed out by it? Only picking and choosing certain ones

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because they seem less gross, Let me just not eat it.

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And that combined with, you know, spending a lot

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of time with my rabbit, who lived with me at college in my dorm,

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really kind of forced me to do a deep dive into

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my relationship with animals. Not just the ones who I

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live with and coincide with, but the ones who are on my plate,

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the ones who are experimented on for our products, the ones who

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are viewed as entertainment. So it really made

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me have that deeper dive. So I spent a lot of time on social

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media and that was really my main outlet and

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tool for research. I was looking at a lot of posts from

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PETA on Facebook and on Instagram, looking at YouTube

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videos and really just having like a self guided journey

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into what is it to be vegan? How do I have

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a more ethical relationship with animals? Because my entire life I've

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loved animals, but that love was only extended

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necessarily to animals right in front of me or the animals that I

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was physically beside, you know, within my house.

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So spending time and having that emotional connection with my rabbit,

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Willow, really forced me to reconsider my relationship with animals.

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My first ever dive into activism was actually

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before I was even vegan. I was a vegetarian

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at the time. And it was the summer before my sophomore

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year of college or, sorry, before my junior year of college, I believe.

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And I had gone to a restaurant in Baltimore,

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Maryland. It's called Golden West Cafe. And they have vegan options

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as well as, I guess like your meat and your dairy options.

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But I was dating someone at the time and I was like, well, let's go

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try this out. You know, I had never been to a restaurant that had vegan

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options. Let's go see what it's like. And there was a flyer

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on the door to the restaurant and it was for the National Animal Rights

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March in Washington D.C. and it was in the

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August of 2019 that it was scheduled. I took a picture of it

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and I went on the website when I got home, looked at the

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Facebook event and I was like, you know what, I don't know anyone who's

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going to be there. I've never really taken a dive

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into this community besides on Social media.

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I want to go see what this is like. And as a college student,

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you know, someone really blossoming into my own independent

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person. It was kind of, you know, like a little, ooh, let's see

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what it's like. Just that tempting independence and forming

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your own, you know, self expression and your own person.

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So I ended up going to that event. I brought my

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partner at the time who was not vegetarian or vegan,

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and we went and I remember making a sign. I believe

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it had said, I refuse for my tax dollars to pay for

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the experimentation, exploitation and abuse of animals.

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I was really against animal testing, but I never really

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knew how to make a sign. So it had a lot of, a lot of

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big words on it. Not the most legible thing in the world. But I had

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took my sign and I met up with everyone,

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you know, at a Park in D.C. and I marched with

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them. And it was quite an amazing experience coming from someone who

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had never, ever been an activist, hadn't even

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been a vegan. It was just that curiosity that kind of forced

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me out there. And I remember, you know, seeing so

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many signs, you know, chanting alongside these people who I had never

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met before, you know, never having, meeting a vegan in

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real life and all of a sudden being surrounded by thousands of people with

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a street blocked off by police cars. It was,

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it was amazing. Wow, it, it really was an amazing experience.

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And that really, if anything, like,

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elevated my sense of I need to do something, the sense of urgency

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that I have to hold myself to those moral standards.

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I was surrounded by people who are really passionate, are really

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strong, and strive to live the most ethical life they can.

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And that's what I want to do. I love asking people their vegan story

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because I think people love hearing vegan stories.

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And your vegan story is, I feel like it's very

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unique for your age because I

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think that when I went vegan 15

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years ago, I didn't know any other vegans. I kind of.

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My vegan story will be on another episode, but I don't want to go into

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that. But as you are, you know, you're very young person,

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you are still in college and you're exploring this

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from your, your, your bunny at home, which we

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want everyone to, to, to look at those

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animals we call family, right? And then make that connection, which is so hard,

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and then to go to, you see a sign for an animal rights conference and

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march rather, and you're not quite all the way there

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to vegan yet, and you just go and you're like, totally out of your comfort

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zone. And I think that's really, really amazing. And I think.

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Great story. So what inspired you to be an advocate for animal

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rights? So you went to the march. Yeah. And then was

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that like the moment? Was that like the

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moment? It wasn't the moment because it still took me until,

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I believe, November of that year. So the march was in August, and it wasn't

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until November of that year that I went 100% vegan.

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And I unfortunately, am one of those people that don't have, you know, some people

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have that crystal clear date. This is the day it happened. This is the day.

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I don't really either. It was like over the course of a

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couple weeks, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But I can

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definitively say that In November of 2019, I did become

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vegan. But I think what really inspired me to be a

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voice, not just keep it inside, not just say, oh, this is

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my personal choice, and leave it at that.

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I wanted to be a voice about it and to be vocal about it

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and to be loud about it because people don't know

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and people aren't told to question those things.

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I remember being a kid and a lot of times it was just,

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don't question those things. It wasn't, you know, why don't we eat meat?

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Just eat it. Right. It really wasn't something that we questioned.

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That was just how it was. And it's easier sometimes

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to say, that's just how it is and to continue about your day or

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some things are more explicitly hidden. We don't

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necessarily realize that our tax dollars do pay for

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experiments to be done on animals, you know, across the country,

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whether it be rabbits, mice, fish,

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non human apes. So many animals are,

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you know, shuttered into laboratories where we can't even see

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what's going on. And this is what our tax dollars pay for.

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And same with farmed animals. I think that we don't necessarily

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see the extent of it because it is behind closed doors.

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My grandparents live out in rural Maryland and I

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can remember driving there, you know, since I was little, that two hour or

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so drive, you know, through farmland and I'm like, oh, there's, you know,

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there's the cornfield, there's the soy field, but you don't see the chickens.

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And that's because they're a mile away in these giant

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industrial sheds. You wouldn't think that there's millions of lives in

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there. So I think I wanted to become a voice because

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one, we were told not to question it and two, it's so

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hidden. Once you know, these things. How can you be quiet

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about it? Right. Once you know, you know. Right?

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Yeah. So you're. So you're half my age. So I love this because

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I think you're half my age because I'm going to be 50. So I think

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you're around 25, I think. Right? I am 25. Okay. So. So this

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is. This. I love this because you have different perspective on things,

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you know, as. And I wasn't that young when I became Vegan.

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I was 35. So. What, what. Who do

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you see when you're at events, when you're doing different kinds of

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activism? Whether it's at. And we'll get into some horse racing. Wrong stuff

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later. But whether it's a horse racing protest or vigil at a slaughterhouse,

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I know these are a few of the things you've done recently or, or any

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other kind of protest. I know you're in Florida this year, earlier this year,

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and you did a protest there. But who do you see around you?

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Do see people your age around you? Oh, that's a tough

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question. I typically am the youngest

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person, which to me, it made sense when I was in college. You know,

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I'm a student and I am like at that age where, okay, I do have

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that independence. I don't need my mom's permission. So maybe that makes

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sense being the youngest when, you know, you're in college. But post

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college, I was like, okay, I'm going to start seeing high schoolers. I'm going

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to start seeing college students coming out and being active

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alongside me, whether it be at horse racing, wrongs,

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demo, outside of a track, whether it be at a slaughterhouse vigil. I thought

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that there would be, you know, younger people, especially because I think

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with the rise of social media, we have people who are becoming more socially conscious

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and more willing to take those uncomfortable steps to raise

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a voice against, you know, atrocities.

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But I happen to just see people who are older

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than me. Not that there's anything wrong with, you know, seeing a variety

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of people in age. It doesn't matter whether you're 80 or you're 50

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or you're 25, but I don't

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typically see people younger than me. I see men, I see women,

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I see people of a variety of religions and backgrounds and races.

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But I don't typically see those high school and college

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students who you would think would be, you know, wanting to challenge those norms,

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wanting to stand up and put themselves on the front

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lines, boots on the ground, activism. And that's something that

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I really do want to explore. I want to encourage people to do

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so. What would you say to people in early

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20s, in college age, high school? What would you say

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to them? And maybe you can kind of, you know,

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like, talk about maybe why you think that they're not coming out if,

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you know, we don't know. We can't read people's minds. But what would you say?

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What would you say to them? Like. Like to get them involved.

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And how can we get them involved? Younger people?

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One way that I want to start engaging with younger people is I actually

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do plan on going out to college campuses and trying to engage

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with students and having those conversations. Saying,

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one, just doing general vegan outreach, but then saying, okay,

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if you are vegan or if you do believe the things that we are advocating

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for, come out and join us. So that's kind of how I am going

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to, you know, going forward, start having those conversations with younger

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students. I think there's a lot of reasons why people

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aren't getting involved. There always are.

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And whether you see those as reasons or excuses is your own

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personal judgment. I'm not here to make judgments.

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Whether people say it's a financial

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thing because, oh, they have to be working or they

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have to be at school, whether it's a time constraint, whether it's

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no access to transportation, There are ways to combat all

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of those issues. Whether it be, oh, I hear about an

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event, I can't get there, let's carpool. There will always be

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someone willing to pick you up. If it's a financial,

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okay, do you need some gas money? Like everything we have here, all of

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our supplies are provided. You don't need to bring anything. We have everything

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for you. And a big thing I've been hearing about lately,

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too, is there's just bigger issues going on.

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You know, what about people? What about,

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you know, war? What about, you know, all of these crises that

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are happening across the planet right now? And to

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that, that's very, very difficult to address because,

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of course, there are so many atrocities going on every

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second. And with that, of course,

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you should advocate, you know, for those people, for those victim,

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but you have limitless compassion.

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I know that our energy is limited, but you can be compassionate

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and you can care and you can advocate for so many different

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causes. Right. And I know, and that's a

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really good point, because I do think in some people's minds, human issues are

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more important, so the animal issues should take a backseat.

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But it is. It all. It all comes together. You know,

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I know that the people that I protest with and have been protesting

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with for years are out there either donating

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or going to protests and demonstrations

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for other, you know, environmental, A bunch

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of us go to the climate marches with, you know, our vegan sides to

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educate a little bit further about, about how being vegan can help and

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caring about animals and animal agriculture can help with the climate,

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you know, and, and, and, but we are, we do do that kind of,

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you know, we do, you know, support human causes

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as well. So let's talk about balance

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a little bit because I think this is a great question for you.

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I know I'm like, I'm, and we're talking about your age a lot,

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but I think it's really good for, for, for you to be an inspiration to

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people that are younger. And I know, look,

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life, work, life activism, balance is

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not easy. I'm always working on it. But how do you balance

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activism with your personal life and other responsibilities with your job and

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your work with horse racing wrongs is also activism as well. So, you know,

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and then you do other activism. So how do you, how do you do that

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balance in your life? And because I know that that could be hard

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for people too, especially younger people if they're trying to study, get a job and

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be active at the same time. And I know there's a lot of pressure out

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there to be the best of everything. Right from social media, there's influencers

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to be the best at everything, to be the best activist, to be the best

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everything. So how do you do it? How do you balance everything out?

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Oh, okay. So I guess it's kind of like a two part or I almost

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have like a two part answer. Yeah. One is that there's so many different

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forms of activism. Activism doesn't necessarily have to be boots on

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the ground, protesting, marching, doing huge demonstrations.

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Sometimes it can just be wearing a shirt with your message

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on it. Sometimes it can be posting something on social media or even just sharing

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something on social media. Sometimes it could be,

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oh, you know, we're doing an alert or an action to

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contact your legislators or contact the media outlet

291
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and the organization will have all of those resources

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right there. So you can just copy and paste. It could be signing a petition,

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it could be, you know, engaging in just small talk with your friends and

294
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family. It doesn't always have to be this huge time consuming

295
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or energy, you know, sucking event. Sometimes it

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really just is armchair activism. And there's nothing wrong with

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that if that is what you have the time and physical and mental ability

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to do. The second answer to that is. So you

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do want to get into that boots on the ground activism.

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It did. It's definitely been a balancing act for me over the years.

301
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I remember when I first got into activism, it was bang,

302
00:18:19,985 --> 00:18:23,553
bang, bang, you know, multiple times a week. I'm not doing

303
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slaughterhouse vigils, protesting every single second

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of my life. I wanted to do something right. But as

305
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I've kind of been on this vegan activism

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journey, I've learned to say, you know, this is my work time,

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this is my personal care time, and this is the time that

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I dedicate to the animals. Of course, it doesn't mean that there's, you know,

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flexing or that there's, you know, times where I'm like, oh, let me add

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in a little bit of this, or, oh, let me do this quick action.

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But usually, at least for me, I have my Saturdays.

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I told my work, this is my volunteer day, so I can't

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work. I'm volunteering. And luckily, a lot of animal rights groups

314
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are 501c3 nonprofits. So it is volunteering.

315
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It is. You're volunteering your time for the animals, so.

316
00:19:07,457 --> 00:19:11,081
Exactly, yeah. So Saturdays, I've always had, you know,

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reserved. And I have that conversation with my work. I have that

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conversation with my partner and my family. And I always, you know,

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set aside Saturday as okay. If I want to do an in person event,

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this is the day that I'm going to do it. But of course, you know,

321
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there's flexibility, there's life, but that's something that I

322
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use to balance it. And then doing that, you know, computer and social media

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activism in the afternoons and in the evenings.

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And that's how I've kind of found that balance. But of course, there's something

325
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different for everyone. I don't, you know, you don't necessarily have to reserve one entire

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day of the week to activism. You know, it really can all be done from

327
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the comfort of your home, from your cell phone, from your computer,

328
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and just from having conversations one on one with people. So it's learning

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how involved you want to get, what you have the ability to do, and then

330
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how to integrate that into your daily life. I think that's a great answer.

331
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And I also think that a lot of people feel a lot of pressure that

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they have to be an influencer while they're

333
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being an activist. Like, they have to do these live videos and they have to.

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And I think that burns people out a lot trying to be

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do they already have maybe a family and a job, and then they're like,

336
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Oh, I have to do live videos at this protest and I got to post

337
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all the time and I have to do all these things. But you can share

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posts, you can, you know, make a phone call. There's sometimes

339
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I. There's actions to call designers

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and ask them to go for free. And that's a quick, quick action.

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And you don't need to have a lot of knowledge doing this because once

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your voice, once you tell yourself like this is the.

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For the animals, it's so much easier because it takes yourself out

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of it. And I think that's a lot of what we need to do also

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is kind of take ourselves out of it and what people might think about us

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and just go out there and be their voice. Because animals

347
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can't be their own voice. Right. So all their social justice movements,

348
00:21:02,161 --> 00:21:05,361
they people, the oppressed, could advocate for themselves.

349
00:21:05,433 --> 00:21:08,281
Patrick and I have been talking about this a lot and we put a few

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little videos out on it, but the animals can't.

351
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Well, what brought. Let's. We'll plug horse racing wrongs a little bit. So you

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00:21:15,107 --> 00:21:18,339
are a communication specialist for horse racing wrongs. So what

353
00:21:18,507 --> 00:21:21,899
drew you to horse racing wrongs

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and our mission? And what was your first

355
00:21:25,531 --> 00:21:29,155
interaction? You had a. You came to a horse racing wrongs

356
00:21:29,195 --> 00:21:32,635
protest. Right. So when did you do that for the first time?

357
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So my first horse racing wrongs protest,

358
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I believe it was June 6,

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2020, I believe. And that was a protest at

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Laurel park and that was mid Covid. So mass

361
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lockdowns. It was definitely an interesting landscape

362
00:21:50,887 --> 00:21:54,527
to navigate. So yeah, if you needed a little push.

363
00:21:54,671 --> 00:21:57,903
I somehow became an activist during a lockdown in the pandemic.

364
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And that's when a lot of people stopped being active. A lot of people stopped

365
00:22:02,415 --> 00:22:05,863
being active like completely in 2020. So I

366
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don't know what it was, if it was the political landsc.

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If it was everyone just getting stressed and burned out about

368
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the virus and Covid and all that. And. But so that's

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00:22:15,731 --> 00:22:19,043
a really interesting time for you to, to really, you know,

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to. To come out to. To a protest there.

371
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And I want to point out, you know, when you went to the march,

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you weren't vegan yet. So I want everyone listening

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00:22:29,587 --> 00:22:32,851
to always remember that everyone is welcome

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00:22:32,883 --> 00:22:36,435
at a protest. We always have allowed anyone and

375
00:22:36,475 --> 00:22:39,603
everyone to be at our horse racing wrongs protest when we did circus fur or

376
00:22:39,619 --> 00:22:43,511
whatever. And you don't vegan yet, so you'll

377
00:22:43,543 --> 00:22:47,111
probably be vegan soon after. But maybe that's what you're already looking for.

378
00:22:47,183 --> 00:22:50,583
But anyway, you can just join and you can just be there for

379
00:22:50,639 --> 00:22:53,823
that animal. And I think that's really important because

380
00:22:53,959 --> 00:22:57,231
that's how you start looking at the bigger picture. So sorry to

381
00:22:57,303 --> 00:23:00,207
interrupt on there, but I wanted. No, that's totally fine. That was.

382
00:23:00,271 --> 00:23:03,703
So that's. That was your introduction to horse racing?

383
00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:07,407
Yes. I just happened to stumble upon it. I don't know how,

384
00:23:07,471 --> 00:23:10,847
but I just happened to stumble upon it on Facebook. I guess it was kind

385
00:23:10,871 --> 00:23:14,071
of. Because I, you know, kept searching and was trying to, you know, immerse myself

386
00:23:14,143 --> 00:23:18,015
in animal activism and veganism. And I think that somehow

387
00:23:18,095 --> 00:23:21,623
Facebook algorithm just. And split it right into my feed.

388
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And I did not know a single person. I did not know the organizer.

389
00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:29,183
I don't even know if I was familiar with horse racing wrongs yet, but I

390
00:23:29,199 --> 00:23:32,607
was like, oh, that's, you know, somewhat close to where I live. Let me

391
00:23:32,631 --> 00:23:36,017
go and try it out. And I actually met

392
00:23:36,081 --> 00:23:39,321
an amazing, amazing group of individuals. I met

393
00:23:39,353 --> 00:23:43,497
the person who was ultimately my mentor, Jennifer Sully, who organized

394
00:23:43,561 --> 00:23:47,665
that protest. And the very next day, she invited me to National

395
00:23:47,705 --> 00:23:51,113
Animal Rights Day. So it ended up going from one horse racing

396
00:23:51,129 --> 00:23:54,529
wrongs protest to a whole weekend of activism.

397
00:23:54,697 --> 00:23:58,321
Awesome. But that was my first ever experience with horse racing

398
00:23:58,353 --> 00:24:01,529
wrongs. And since then, it's been really a great

399
00:24:01,617 --> 00:24:05,121
journey. I've been interviewed,

400
00:24:05,193 --> 00:24:09,161
I've written letters to the editor. I've been at protests

401
00:24:09,193 --> 00:24:13,325
in multiple different states, in Delaware, in Maryland, in New York,

402
00:24:13,825 --> 00:24:17,601
and really have had an amazing opportunity to

403
00:24:17,793 --> 00:24:21,169
be an advocate for the animals. And it's definitely pushed me out of

404
00:24:21,177 --> 00:24:24,465
my comfort zone many times, but I've also learned so,

405
00:24:24,505 --> 00:24:28,537
so much. Horses are so lucky to have you advocate for them

406
00:24:28,721 --> 00:24:32,451
all the time. So what tips do

407
00:24:32,483 --> 00:24:35,859
you have for people who. Well, we've already talked about it a

408
00:24:35,867 --> 00:24:39,587
little bit, but, like, people who maybe who want

409
00:24:39,611 --> 00:24:42,627
to be active, they want to advocate more,

410
00:24:42,691 --> 00:24:45,995
but they don't know what to do. Say somebody say, I'm gonna.

411
00:24:46,035 --> 00:24:48,803
I'll give you a couple questions. So. So say someone said, well, I really would

412
00:24:48,819 --> 00:24:52,255
like to go to a protest, but I don't think it's effective,

413
00:24:52,675 --> 00:24:56,075
something like that, or that they don't think that. That what

414
00:24:56,115 --> 00:24:59,291
they're going to do matters. What. What would you. What would you say to that?

415
00:24:59,323 --> 00:25:01,935
What kind of inspiration or tips could you give somebody?

416
00:25:02,745 --> 00:25:06,417
I just had a conversation somewhat related to

417
00:25:06,441 --> 00:25:09,945
this yesterday. We received, or I had received a message saying,

418
00:25:09,985 --> 00:25:13,801
okay, what's changed with Fort Racing in the last 10 years? And to

419
00:25:13,833 --> 00:25:18,209
that I say so much. I mean, change is slow but

420
00:25:18,297 --> 00:25:21,937
it is statistically happening. If you

421
00:25:21,961 --> 00:25:25,897
think your protest doesn't do anything, if you think, you know, signing a

422
00:25:25,921 --> 00:25:29,589
petition doesn't do anything, I challenge you to think otherwise.

423
00:25:29,677 --> 00:25:33,005
Because every little thing we do each and every

424
00:25:33,045 --> 00:25:35,505
single day is a step in the right direction.

425
00:25:36,285 --> 00:25:39,789
If a protest is not your thing at all,

426
00:25:39,877 --> 00:25:43,061
that's totally fine. But if you do and are questioning, you know,

427
00:25:43,173 --> 00:25:46,293
how can I do things differently or how, you know, does this really make a

428
00:25:46,309 --> 00:25:49,589
difference or does this really matter? There are people, you know, just walking

429
00:25:49,637 --> 00:25:52,965
by, even if they don't engage with you, they see you and you can put,

430
00:25:53,045 --> 00:25:56,335
plant that seed in their head that, you know, asks them to, you know,

431
00:25:56,375 --> 00:26:00,175
evaluate, to further question things, to look things up and to research

432
00:26:00,295 --> 00:26:02,955
and, you know, ask those important questions.

433
00:26:03,455 --> 00:26:07,527
Every little thing you do matters. And there is a space for everyone in activism.

434
00:26:07,671 --> 00:26:11,127
So even if you are uncomfortable with a protest or you don't see yourself going

435
00:26:11,151 --> 00:26:14,511
to a protest, regardless of your ability, of your

436
00:26:14,543 --> 00:26:17,535
time commitment, you can be an activist.

437
00:26:17,695 --> 00:26:21,137
You can do, you know, sharing and posting on social

438
00:26:21,201 --> 00:26:25,105
media. You can, if you're an artist, you can do artwork,

439
00:26:25,185 --> 00:26:27,765
if you are a musician making music.

440
00:26:28,745 --> 00:26:32,217
There are just so many ways that you can get

441
00:26:32,281 --> 00:26:35,809
active, whether it be in person, online, using your

442
00:26:35,857 --> 00:26:39,761
special skills and your talents. And if you don't know where to start,

443
00:26:39,913 --> 00:26:43,681
reach out, say something and someone will most certainly help

444
00:26:43,713 --> 00:26:47,633
you. A variety of nonprofits, including horse racing Wrongs, will provide

445
00:26:47,689 --> 00:26:51,007
you the materials that you need, will provide you the mentorship that

446
00:26:51,031 --> 00:26:54,959
you need in order to get active. Whether it be, you know,

447
00:26:55,087 --> 00:26:58,511
what are some online actions I can take from home or I

448
00:26:58,543 --> 00:27:02,071
want to say something, I want to be an in person presence at

449
00:27:02,103 --> 00:27:05,791
my local track because I'm tired of my tax dollars paying

450
00:27:05,823 --> 00:27:08,471
for this and it being unquestioned.

451
00:27:08,623 --> 00:27:11,975
So just reach out. There are so many things that you can do

452
00:27:12,015 --> 00:27:15,697
and there are so many resources and people willing to help you and

453
00:27:15,721 --> 00:27:19,385
get you started. That's a great answer. And I think that people

454
00:27:19,425 --> 00:27:22,833
think they need to be an expert in it to do any

455
00:27:22,889 --> 00:27:26,305
kind of activism. And you don't. I remember when I was picking up the phone

456
00:27:26,345 --> 00:27:29,721
to do a call action to one of the designers to ask them to go

457
00:27:29,753 --> 00:27:32,553
for free. And I was, I pick, I like dialed the number and I was

458
00:27:32,569 --> 00:27:35,097
like, wait a minute, I can't do this. I'm not an expert in this.

459
00:27:35,121 --> 00:27:37,777
And I said, wait a minute, it's for the animals. I'm just going to ask

460
00:27:37,801 --> 00:27:41,513
them to go fur free. This is animal cruelty. There's other designers have gone fur

461
00:27:41,569 --> 00:27:44,969
free and animal skin free. And we're asking you to do this. And then that

462
00:27:44,977 --> 00:27:48,661
was it. You know, it was so easy. So I just took, like,

463
00:27:48,693 --> 00:27:51,869
myself out of it, all my, you know, issues. And, you know,

464
00:27:51,917 --> 00:27:55,141
I still get nervous doing things. I still get nervous on the bullhorn. You know,

465
00:27:55,173 --> 00:27:58,581
I think it's. We're always in our, you know, in an uncomfortable

466
00:27:58,653 --> 00:28:02,797
place. But I want to ask this because people ask me this in interviews

467
00:28:02,861 --> 00:28:06,437
too, when I talk about horse racing, dogs. How do you stay motivated and

468
00:28:06,501 --> 00:28:09,945
positive in, in the face of,

469
00:28:11,055 --> 00:28:14,479
you know, the world that we're in and animal rights advocacy?

470
00:28:14,647 --> 00:28:18,223
How do you stay motivated and positive? People ask me this a lot too,

471
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:21,955
so. Okay, so I wanted to know because you're very positive.

472
00:28:22,295 --> 00:28:26,215
I try. The first thing is celebrate the

473
00:28:26,255 --> 00:28:29,351
small wins and the small victories. You are not going

474
00:28:29,383 --> 00:28:32,863
to end all animal exploitation by tomorrow

475
00:28:32,999 --> 00:28:37,055
because it is so entangled in our culture

476
00:28:37,135 --> 00:28:41,041
and in the human experience. Animal exploitation and the

477
00:28:41,073 --> 00:28:44,241
abuse and use of others for our gain is

478
00:28:44,273 --> 00:28:47,377
something that unfortunately our civilization has been built upon.

479
00:28:47,521 --> 00:28:51,153
So you're not going to change it overnight, but you are going to slowly,

480
00:28:51,209 --> 00:28:55,145
slowly change. Hearts change the thoughts and minds of individuals.

481
00:28:55,265 --> 00:28:58,985
You know, first maybe your family and friends or strangers on the street.

482
00:28:59,105 --> 00:29:02,969
Then it may be our politicians and our legislators and

483
00:29:03,017 --> 00:29:06,331
our lawmakers, and then eventually you may be making that

484
00:29:06,433 --> 00:29:09,727
big change that you want to see. But it is going to take a lot

485
00:29:09,751 --> 00:29:13,471
of time and celebrate those little wins. In regards

486
00:29:13,503 --> 00:29:17,735
to horse racing, there have been tracks, there have been numerous

487
00:29:17,775 --> 00:29:22,199
tracks that have completely shut down operations since2045.

488
00:29:22,247 --> 00:29:25,367
I'm 20 from2045 tracks have closed.

489
00:29:25,391 --> 00:29:28,951
Yeah, three this year and then Golden

490
00:29:28,983 --> 00:29:32,369
Gate. So that was huge. We've personally seen,

491
00:29:32,487 --> 00:29:36,085
you know, these big races. Attendance is plummeting. And when

492
00:29:36,125 --> 00:29:40,229
people are walking in those doors, it's not always a complete

493
00:29:40,317 --> 00:29:43,965
ignorance or, you know, aggression towards protesters.

494
00:29:44,085 --> 00:29:47,701
Sometimes they are curious and sometimes the people driving by,

495
00:29:47,853 --> 00:29:51,333
I mean, just in my few years of activism, you know, standing outside of

496
00:29:51,349 --> 00:29:54,749
Pimlico Racecourse, at first it was a lot of middle fingers.

497
00:29:54,877 --> 00:29:58,109
There are people screaming, you know, rolling down their windows and screaming.

498
00:29:58,197 --> 00:30:01,245
Obviously you can't really hear what they say because going, you know, 30 plus miles

499
00:30:01,285 --> 00:30:04,933
per hour down the road. But originally

500
00:30:05,109 --> 00:30:08,213
that was a little bit more statistically common.

501
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:11,189
Nowadays it is maybe one middle finger,

502
00:30:11,317 --> 00:30:14,533
but so many supportive honks, so many thumbs up,

503
00:30:14,589 --> 00:30:17,837
so many key signs, so many smiles and waves,

504
00:30:17,981 --> 00:30:21,565
people rolling down their windows saying, what can we do? Or like,

505
00:30:21,605 --> 00:30:25,173
oh, can we take a leaflet? Do you have Anything. Or if I am offering

506
00:30:25,189 --> 00:30:28,303
them a leaflet, sometimes they'll, you know, reach into their glove box and say,

507
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:31,407
I already have one. Well, at least they're holding onto it for future

508
00:30:31,471 --> 00:30:35,039
reference. Yeah, so that's, that's a great

509
00:30:35,087 --> 00:30:38,031
point too. So there's that answer. That person who reached out to you and said,

510
00:30:38,063 --> 00:30:41,567
what has changed in the past 10 years? Well, when you're advocating for the end

511
00:30:41,631 --> 00:30:45,271
to something, first it's going to take longer. Right? So when you're the

512
00:30:45,343 --> 00:30:49,127
we're the end animal testing, the end for. Of prefer

513
00:30:49,311 --> 00:30:52,359
for the end of, of people eating animals.

514
00:30:52,447 --> 00:30:55,743
These things take a really, really long time. Progress is slow.

515
00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:59,307
But like you said, celebrating wins are

516
00:30:59,371 --> 00:31:03,315
so important and activism feels

517
00:31:03,435 --> 00:31:07,267
good. So do you, do you feel good after you've

518
00:31:07,291 --> 00:31:11,371
been out there protesting? And I think a lot of people, they don't

519
00:31:11,403 --> 00:31:14,995
know how good that feels. And that's, hey, we can be a little selfish

520
00:31:15,035 --> 00:31:18,667
and want to feel good, right? So yeah, it does feel good to be

521
00:31:18,691 --> 00:31:22,267
out there holding a sign or, you know, doing a speak out

522
00:31:22,291 --> 00:31:25,403
and educating people. And I think that's really important too. And I

523
00:31:25,419 --> 00:31:28,963
think it's certainly uncomfortable in the moment. Like you're going to be scared, you're going

524
00:31:28,979 --> 00:31:31,971
to be anxious. Those are normal human experiences,

525
00:31:32,123 --> 00:31:35,935
especially when you're putting yourself out there and challenging, you know, social norms.

526
00:31:36,475 --> 00:31:39,819
But I think obviously you're going to feel a lot better if

527
00:31:39,827 --> 00:31:43,163
you're actually using your voice than just bottling up this feeling saying,

528
00:31:43,299 --> 00:31:46,475
I see the oppression that animals are experiencing.

529
00:31:46,595 --> 00:31:49,651
I am aware of what's going on in factory farming, of what's going on in

530
00:31:49,683 --> 00:31:53,429
laboratories, of what's going on in the horse racing industry and

531
00:31:53,477 --> 00:31:57,101
staying silent and just keeping all those truths, you know,

532
00:31:57,133 --> 00:32:01,117
just locked up away and not saying anything. That's certainly not

533
00:32:01,141 --> 00:32:04,541
going to make you feel any better. Knowing and holding on to

534
00:32:04,573 --> 00:32:07,997
these truths isn't going to change things. Right? To make change,

535
00:32:08,061 --> 00:32:11,373
we have to share the truth, we have to educate, we have

536
00:32:11,389 --> 00:32:14,861
to advocate, we have to make people aware. And I think in

537
00:32:14,893 --> 00:32:17,749
doing that, that is how we instigate change.

538
00:32:17,917 --> 00:32:21,613
Not just saying, okay, I know these truths, but just say I know these truths

539
00:32:21,709 --> 00:32:25,621
and I need the world to know as well. Because this industry and

540
00:32:25,653 --> 00:32:29,981
all of these industries flourish under, you know, people's blindness,

541
00:32:30,053 --> 00:32:33,669
under the fact that people are willing to not question these things, right?

542
00:32:33,717 --> 00:32:36,749
But to have those hard conversations, to question these things,

543
00:32:36,877 --> 00:32:40,141
it makes you feel good because you know that once people

544
00:32:40,173 --> 00:32:44,191
are aware, they don't want to support it and you are

545
00:32:44,263 --> 00:32:48,223
directly fighting the enemy, you know, in the industry by

546
00:32:48,399 --> 00:32:51,743
telling the truth, by saying, this is what they're covering up

547
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:55,111
from you, this is what you're paying for. This is what your tax dollars support.

548
00:32:55,263 --> 00:32:58,927
Now that you know, what are you going to do with that information and

549
00:32:58,951 --> 00:33:02,247
how are you going to use that information to better be a voice for the

550
00:33:02,271 --> 00:33:06,127
animals? Thank you so much. Is there anything

551
00:33:06,231 --> 00:33:09,675
else you'd like to share with our audience today?

552
00:33:10,305 --> 00:33:13,625
Any. Oh, gosh, there are so many things that I can say.

553
00:33:13,705 --> 00:33:17,249
Any inspiration or any. I always like to let

554
00:33:17,337 --> 00:33:20,825
let vegans know that, you know, you can save more

555
00:33:20,865 --> 00:33:24,345
animals by being active and putting yourself out there.

556
00:33:24,425 --> 00:33:27,873
And if you're, if you, and if you find yourself com.

557
00:33:27,969 --> 00:33:31,681
Complaining about an industry that hurts animals,

558
00:33:31,833 --> 00:33:35,913
there is something you can do. So take the complaint and turn that into action.

559
00:33:36,009 --> 00:33:38,537
But is there anything else that you would like?

560
00:33:38,641 --> 00:33:40,285
Yeah, I mean, I guess.

561
00:33:42,865 --> 00:33:47,713
I mean, all I can really do is reiterate. Get active, be uncomfortable.

562
00:33:47,849 --> 00:33:51,073
Put yourself in situations that you normally wouldn't be in. You see

563
00:33:51,089 --> 00:33:55,137
a sign for a march, go to that march. Even if you aren't fully

564
00:33:55,241 --> 00:33:59,041
vegan, if you, even if you aren't an activist, you are welcome in these

565
00:33:59,073 --> 00:34:02,705
spaces. We will give you the materials and the strength

566
00:34:02,865 --> 00:34:06,585
and the compassion you need to feel welcome and to feel like you can

567
00:34:06,625 --> 00:34:10,063
be an advocate for the animals. Because like you said, you know,

568
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:13,783
animals can't, you know, go and lobby for their rights. They can't

569
00:34:13,839 --> 00:34:17,479
go and hold their abusers accountable in the court of

570
00:34:17,527 --> 00:34:21,087
law. That is what we need to do. And we need to hold

571
00:34:21,151 --> 00:34:25,039
these abusive industries accountable for what they have done to the animals.

572
00:34:25,207 --> 00:34:28,439
And knowing these truths, knowing how

573
00:34:28,487 --> 00:34:31,831
these industries function and flourish, especially under, you know,

574
00:34:31,863 --> 00:34:35,427
people turning a blind eye or, you know, throwing a sheet over and

575
00:34:35,451 --> 00:34:38,667
walking away, we need to pull back that sheet and we

576
00:34:38,691 --> 00:34:41,995
need to show the world and we need to advocate. So whether,

577
00:34:42,075 --> 00:34:45,603
regardless of your ability, regardless of your time commitment, you can do

578
00:34:45,619 --> 00:34:48,659
this. Just reach out and we will gladly

579
00:34:48,707 --> 00:34:51,267
invite you into the world of animal activism.

580
00:34:51,451 --> 00:34:55,067
You are needed. You are wanted, and the animals

581
00:34:55,131 --> 00:34:58,571
need you, Right? Yes. And it's not, it's not easy.

582
00:34:58,603 --> 00:35:01,107
It's not easy for me all the time, and I know it's not easy for

583
00:35:01,131 --> 00:35:04,643
you. It's not easy. We, you know, we're positive people,

584
00:35:04,699 --> 00:35:08,151
you and I, and, and, you know, we, we do stay positive.

585
00:35:08,223 --> 00:35:12,191
We're, we are motivated most of the time. And I think that,

586
00:35:12,263 --> 00:35:15,527
that people just think it comes naturally, but it really doesn't. It's really, it's a

587
00:35:15,551 --> 00:35:18,047
really really hard thing, hard thing to do.

588
00:35:18,191 --> 00:35:22,007
So. So if somebody right now said, I want to learn more about being

589
00:35:22,071 --> 00:35:25,807
vegan, I want to learn more about, give me

590
00:35:25,871 --> 00:35:28,991
a couple books or documentary or something that maybe somebody could go

591
00:35:29,023 --> 00:35:31,975
watch Right now, if they're watching this on YouTube, they can go in the YouTube

592
00:35:32,015 --> 00:35:35,867
search bar and find something. What would you recommend right here? Well, look, you happen

593
00:35:35,891 --> 00:35:39,283
to see my bookshelf right behind me. I have a whole assortment. There are so

594
00:35:39,299 --> 00:35:42,059
many different materials out there. Whether it be videos,

595
00:35:42,227 --> 00:35:45,923
books, I recommend. I will always

596
00:35:45,979 --> 00:35:50,171
recommend Earthlings and Dominion. Those are two great documentaries

597
00:35:50,243 --> 00:35:53,459
because they, you know, really unveil the truths of these industries.

598
00:35:53,627 --> 00:35:57,163
They are hard, but it's the truth and we need to see

599
00:35:57,179 --> 00:36:00,829
the truth. Especially if this is what you are, you know, financially, you know,

600
00:36:00,917 --> 00:36:04,213
paying for, or if you know, this is what you're consuming, this is

601
00:36:04,229 --> 00:36:07,917
what you're putting into your body, you need to be aware. So those

602
00:36:07,941 --> 00:36:11,645
are two great documentaries. I always advocate for reaching out

603
00:36:11,685 --> 00:36:14,845
to nonprofits, whether it be horse racing rungs,

604
00:36:14,885 --> 00:36:18,785
whether it be PETA, whether it be a local or grassroots organization,

605
00:36:19,205 --> 00:36:21,781
reach out, use any of those resources.

606
00:36:21,893 --> 00:36:25,261
Especially, you know, because there are so many free resources,

607
00:36:25,413 --> 00:36:29,355
books. I always recommend the classic Animal Liberation by Peter Singer.

608
00:36:29,855 --> 00:36:33,879
But there, there's just a multitude of books, a multitude of

609
00:36:33,967 --> 00:36:37,303
documentaries. There's so many resources. Or just Google how to

610
00:36:37,319 --> 00:36:40,675
go vegan, right? There you go. Find something, right?

611
00:36:41,175 --> 00:36:45,111
Most certainly. So thank you so much for being on the

612
00:36:45,143 --> 00:36:48,795
podcast today and it was so great to chat with you

613
00:36:49,095 --> 00:36:52,655
and we will definitely put some of that information in the show notes.

614
00:36:52,815 --> 00:36:56,847
And thank you so much. Great. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

615
00:36:56,991 --> 00:36:59,675
Thank you. All right, bye bye.

616
00:37:06,335 --> 00:37:10,095
Hey, Nicole here from in behalf of animals,

617
00:37:10,255 --> 00:37:14,159
we hope you love our show as much as you love animals.

618
00:37:14,287 --> 00:37:18,679
And if you do, can you take a quick action to help amplify their voices?

619
00:37:18,847 --> 00:37:22,401
Simply follow our podcast and write us a five star

620
00:37:22,473 --> 00:37:26,121
review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and wherever you are

621
00:37:26,153 --> 00:37:29,321
listening right now. It helps new listeners discover the

622
00:37:29,353 --> 00:37:33,393
show to learn more about how they can join our community and

623
00:37:33,449 --> 00:37:37,441
help animals too. Thank you for listening and remember to

624
00:37:37,473 --> 00:37:39,705
be their voice every chance you get.