Transcript
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Welcome to In Behalf of Animals. I'm Nicole Arcelo.
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I'm passionate about being a voice for the animals.
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Taking action, big or small, can help ease the
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emotional weight that comes with caring
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so deeply for those who have no voice.
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As advocates, our compassion and passion
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often lead us to confront both internal and external roadblocks.
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In these moments, it's easy to feel overwhelmed,
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helpless, and even hopeless.
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This past election has been particularly difficult for
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so many of us, with its outcome deeply affecting
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our personal lives and emotional well being.
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I recorded this episode with my good friend Brian Shapiro back in August,
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and I questioned whether now was the right time to release it.
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But after considering everything, I believe it's exactly
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what we need.
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Look, as animal advocates, we are built for challenges.
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Like every social justice movement, we experience more defeats than
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victories. But those setbacks fuel our drive to keep
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pushing forward to those wins.
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Advocacy is a powerful tool for creating meaningful change,
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even when the political climate feels discouraging. And that's why
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we're here, to support and inspire each other
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as we continue this vital work. I know
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this episode will leave you feeling energized and uplifted
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and a little bit entertained, too. But citizen
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lobbying is a hopeful and proactive way to channel your passion into action.
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Let's rally together and continue the fight
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for animals. Here's my conversation
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with Brian Shapiro.
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Brian, welcome to In Behalf of Animals.
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Hey, Nicole, thanks for having me today. It's awesome in this studio.
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The technology here is just blowing me away.
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We are so happy to have you here. The mission
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of this podcast is twofold. It's to bring animal
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issues to people's consciousness and help them make change,
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and then to give them the tools to become effective
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advocates, to be their voice. So maybe that's threefold,
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so it's okay. Personally, I love going
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to the Capitol here in Albany and visiting offices to be a voice
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for for the animals. It's what you do every day. When I get the opportunity
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to do it, I absolutely love it. I wish I could do it every day.
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You are really good at it, and I'm sure you love to do it,
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too. And just to an aside, you are
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personal friends with Patrick and I, so we talk about this
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kind of thing a lot when we get together. Yes, so. But first,
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so people get to know you better, like we know you. And how did you
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go vegan? How did you become an advocate for animals? And what led
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you on the path to being the New York State Director
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for HSUS and a lobbyist for animals? Excellent,
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Nicole. And again, it's great being here and it's really important this podcast.
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And I do hope that listeners will take some of this information
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and find it empowering as I do.
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You're asking sort of what my personal path was
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to become a leader in the animal protection
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field, particularly here in New York where I'm the state director
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for the Humane Society of the United States. You know, I grew
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up in a household that was very aware
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and cognizant of protest. You know, I'm a 70s
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kid, so I had that kind of support from my parents to be an
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individual, to speak my mind. Awesome. I think
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one of the. I've always loved animals and we were the type of household,
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as many of the listeners obviously have households where,
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you know, animals play an important part, whether it's,
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you know, small pets, dogs, cats or even farm animals.
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But I, I think a turning point I was always at this
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is when I was like 14, 15, really focused at that
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time in the early 80s on the seals,
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the, the slaughter of seals, fur.
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This was a point where PETA really hadn't established
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itself and, and you know, you had smaller groups of people
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pre Internet and you really had to search out this information.
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I was always into rock and roll and oddly enough,
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you know, I used to again, pre Internet, order records from
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England. And at that time the alternative music scene,
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the punk and new wave scene, there was a heavy influence
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of the animal rights movement. And this one lyric that
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I remember, it was a band called Conflict and folks should look
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that up. It is noisy stuff, but you know, the lyrics are very
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heavy on animal protection. And this made a
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point in the lyrics. How can you be against killing
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seal or using
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fur and still eat animals?
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And being like 16, I was like, geez, that makes sense.
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That's a connection. That is a connection. And I remember, I told my
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mom, I remember yelling downstairs and I'm like,
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mom, I'm not eating meat anymore. And she's like, yeah, yeah, whatever.
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And I was 1984 and my
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last meat based meal was a Swanson's Mexican TV dinner.
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And then that was it. Oh, that's the anniversary year for you then? 22.
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Oh wow. It is. Yeah. Well, happy anniversary to me.
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Happy veganversary. So, yeah,
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that, you know, and, and I was also always very interested
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in environmental protection. And as we
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see with a lot of wildlife issues, we're going to talk about lobbying
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and building a community, finding other stakeholders
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to network with. Yeah, you know, the environment was very
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important to me. I decided to move to New York
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from New Jersey and really, I could not
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find a lot of opportunities for environmental protection or animal protection
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at that time in New Jersey. This was over 30 years ago.
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Moved to New York State and became involved in the environment then,
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which led to doing media work. Had a cable access
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program in Woodstock, New York, which was hugely successful.
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Ran for town board, won. Ran for county office,
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won. And eventually became the executive director of the
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Ulster County SPCA in Kingston, New York, one of the best
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shelters in New York State. I got on the radar with hsus
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and when my predecessor moved on, they said, give it to Shapiro. He can do
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it. And I'm blessed to have this position,
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to be able to put all of this energy
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into protecting animals and to make this my life's work
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and to be able to do this every day, it's. It's, it's an honor.
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And to work with wonderful people like you and Patrick, it's all about community.
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It is about community and people working together. And I love how you
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are passionate about people being
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a voice for the animals with their elected officials because it
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is really important. And I think there's a lot of obstacles people have, which we
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will. Yes. Get into it. So I love your story.
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It's so. I love hearing how people got to where they are
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for animals. It's a great, It's a great story. You tell us so well.
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I love that. I think we, you know, we all have. We all have our
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journeys that we go on to come to this place and, you know, we're going
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to touch on it. But I do think we need to remember
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that others may just be starting their journey.
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Yes. Or have not begun their journey. And as the advocates,
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as the voice for animals, we need to speak
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with kindness. We need to approach people and introduce these
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ideas and not be aggressive about it or not feel holier than
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thou about it. Because at one point we were all in the
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same place. Right. There might be a small number of
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us who always, you know, from a baby, maybe we're vegan,
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but I think we all have our journeys.
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So. Yeah, and that's a good point. I think that, you know, we do have
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to. And it's. It. We'll probably have you back for another episode to talk more
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about that because I think that if we're out there yelling at people,
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we need to remember where. If people yelled at us, would we
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be where we are now? And maybe not. You know, some people
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may. That could work. That could work if somebody yelled at them. It's an interesting
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reflection. Depends on the person, I guess. Right. So we
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see animal cruelty every day. We see it on social media,
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we see it on the news, and we all want to stop it.
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And ultimately, much of this has to be done through legislation.
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Educating people is the first step. Then we educate our lawmakers
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and we get laws on the books to help and protect animals.
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But, Brian Shapiro, politics is scary
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for the average person. Right. So how. How do,
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what do you say to that? How do you get people to get past that?
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Because I know that's really hard for some people to get involved in,
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quote, unquote, politics or politicians.
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That's an excellent question, Nicole. You know, yeah, I, I think politics
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gets a bad. A bad rap.
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Same thing like with the legal field lawyers
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or lobbyists. When I tell people I am
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a registered lobbyist here in New York State. Yeah. You know,
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unless people know the background of what it is I am
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lobbying for, I am lobbying for stronger, more effective animal
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protection and environmental protection laws. Right. You know,
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people just have these weird ideas of, like, shady backroom deals
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or. That's how politics, you know, runs.
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You know, the people in office, they are just human beings.
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They are people like you and me. So if
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we're going to approach, let's say there's an issue at our local,
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a town board level, just thinking of some random issue
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that would come up. Let's say the town board
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wants to kill a flock of geese. That was the one in my mind I
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was going to suggest, because I've. Seen that we run across that
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both you and I, all the time as well as listeners.
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These are just people. These are like your cousin Joe or Mary
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who's on the town board. And, you know, it was a journey for myself.
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It's kind of. When I was a town board member. Yeah. You were an elected
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official. I would have. You have this on both sides. I would have people
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scream at me, get weird with me, and it's like, you know, dude, I'm just
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like, you, like, can you explain what this is?
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And, you know, I've often had my mind
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changed by people even now just approaching and having
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a discussion. So my advice to people who maybe
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get turned off by politics or weirded out or
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are nervous, don't be. No one's going
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to attack you. Right. No one is going to grill you
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and question you and, you know, slip bamboo
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under your fingernails. Right. You know, no one's going to do that
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stuff. Right. You know, feel comfortable about it. You know, we.
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We live in a democratic system, and it's not
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only a right for us to speak up and
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to speak out for those of us who believe so strongly in animal
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protection. It is absolutely a responsibility.
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The animals want you to approach
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your elected officials and advocate for them.
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The animals want us to do things like when we
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go into a meeting, to present well, to dress well,
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to be the best that we can be, to change minds, to change
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this system. So in a nutshell,
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there really isn't anything to be afraid of. And there are baby
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steps. Maybe we'll talk about that, that folks can take to just kind
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of get over that. I think you put it in a really perfect way
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that in every other social justice movement, the oppressed
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could speak for themselves, they could fight for themselves, and the animals can't.
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So it's up to us. And that's why we
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do a podcast, that's why we go to the Capitol, that's why we do our
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jobs, that's why we are always a voice for the animals every chance
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we get. Because we have to, we have to do that. Yes.
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So I, I want to kind of address all of the issues
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people have or fears people have before we get into like
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a lobbying 101 kind of type discussion. I love talking to
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you about lobbying. Yeah. But okay, so this is what I
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hear a lot. And we don't do tons of lobbying with horse racing wrongs.
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You know, we've done, we've done some, some things over the past couple years
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and I've done some with nisha, New York State Humane
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association, and with HSUS at the hs,
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US lobbying days. So when I try to recruit people to come with
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me and it's usually a weekday and they can't get off of work, that's another
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issue. But I've heard people say my
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representative is Democrat or Republican
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and they don't care about animals, so why bother?
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Or it's a two part question. I guess because I think these
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are a little bit different. Or there's people who say
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politicians don't care about animals, so why bother? Why am I
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doing that's not true. Politicians are people. You know, it's funny.
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I am on the board of directors of the New York State
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Animal Protection Federation, which focuses on companion animals
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and represents these shelters in the state of New York.
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Our executive director, Libby Post, who's a real powerhouse up
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here in the Capital Region, she was quoted in the New
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York Times when they were covering the puppy mill pipeline
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bill which passed thanks to the help and support of folks such as
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you and Patrick. She made the point that
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animal protection is the last bastion of nonpartisanship
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Right. You know, there are many people who are
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Republicans or Democrats. The first thing that they'll do
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is show you a picture of their pet or share a story with
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you about the animals. I don't think we should
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kind of go into these meetings or these
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approach having a dialogue with an elected official with
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fear and finding excuses. I mean, I'm just putting it factually.
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That's an excuse because it is. These are just people,
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as I said earlier, like you and me. And if we could make the
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logical case why it makes sense not
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to have public subsidies for something like horse racing,
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why it makes sense to have wildlife crossings to
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reduce, you know, the. Let's say we have 65,000
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impacts with vehicles and deer in New York State every year.
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Why it makes sense to have wildlife crossings and the
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lists go on. If we can make the rational explanation
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without, you know, being 100% emotional.
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We are all in this because we feel connected and emotional
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about these things. Right. But when we let our emotions
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take over and get the best of us, that's when
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we slip. I think that elected officials, whether they're Republicans
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or Democrats, are open to logical
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debates and explanations. And then at the end of the day,
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they are there because of you, the listener,
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you the advocate. So they want to hear what you have to say,
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the voter. Thank you. Yeah. So I have a
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small story. We, when we were working
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on the horse racing subsidies here in New York, a lot of people
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said to me, you know, well, you know, they may live out in a
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rural part of the state. And they said, well, my, you know,
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my senator's a Republican, so he's not going to care. And I
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was quick to say, well, Chris Christie was
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taking away the horse racing subsidies when he was governor of New Jersey. He's a
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Republican, and now there's a Democratic governor in New Jersey and he's
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handing out subsidies. So it doesn't matter. So it doesn't matter
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for. And you know, we have a Democratic governor here that is handing
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out subsidies. So it's not. And I can. And there's
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Republican governors that are doing the same in other states. So it doesn't really matter.
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It's because those educ. Those legislators rather
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haven't been educated. Yes. In the subsidy in,
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you know, and it's not, it's not really about animals, but it's not, not about
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animals too, the subsidies. But it's, it's all related to animals.
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You know, at the end of the. Day, not to keep on with any
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particular topic, but on the issues of Subsidies to bolster
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the horse racing industry here in New York State.
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Republican, Democrat, for the small
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areas like, you know, Saratoga that might benefit from this
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infusion of catch and cash, I mean, of,
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of public funds. Right. This is a well off area.
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You know, I don't know, you know, you compare it to Westchester,
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perhaps the Hamptons. I, I don't know the specifics, but there's
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no arguing that this, if, you know, the area around the racetrack
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in Saratoga is a well off area for a Republican
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who represents a rural district, perhaps in the,
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you know, southern tier of the state. Right. They might,
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if presented with this out west, right. Be like,
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wait a minute, that money should be used for education.
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That money should be used to clean, you know,
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the old, you know, you know, polluted field that's poisoning
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the water supply. So, you know, you bring up a very good
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point not to fall into that trap of stereotypes of
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what a Republican or a Democrat would or would not
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support. Right. And there's so much like we're in an election year,
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this podcast should go out before election day. So I know it's just
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going to get bigger and crazier in the news cycle,
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but to try to really drive it home that it doesn't matter.
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So thank you so much for talking about that with me because
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I think it's really, really important. A lot of people don't
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like politics or they don't like politicians,
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but I think, I know. And most of the time
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you're not even talking to. And I'm sure you'll get to this in, in our,
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in our. When we talk more about what we can do as constituents
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to, to lobby. Yeah. How we can become, you know,
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citizen lobbyists, I guess you would call it.
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But you know, most of the time you're talking to an aide anyway.
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So if that's getting ahead of the story. But we can just, that could be
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our segue into kind of like lobbying 101, if you want to kind of break
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into. Absolutely into that. And like, so how do we engage our
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elected officials? Well, it's funny, since you brought it up, maybe that is a
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good point to start with. So,
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you know, with hs US Humane Society of the United States.
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Nicole, as you mentioned, we have done lobbying days where
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hundreds of people have come to Albany. We have set up meetings
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with our elected officials. And this happens in every state. So not
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just in New York. Not just in New York. You know, and this
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is something where a lot of groups do it. I know, you know,
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a aldf, Animal Legal Defense
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Fund That. That they're very, you know, involved with lobbying as well,
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so many different groups. So sometimes
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I've been with people who get upset because they go into the meeting and
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they're talking to a young staffer. I had one guy one year.
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I'm laughing right now. He actually got angry
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and berated the staffer because he said, I came all the way
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to the Capitol and I want to meet with my representative.
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And it really just kind of ruined our presentation
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and started things off on a really sour note. What's important to
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know that whoever you connect with at an office,
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it might not be the big boss, but someone is
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advising the big boss on what the important issues are and filtering
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the information. And if you make a connection in an
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office, whether it's at the town board level,
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the state level, or the federal level,
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hold on to that contact because, you know, you could be like,
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again, you know, Joe or Mary, like, oh, I'm gonna. I don't have that
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information. I'm gonna get back to you next week with that.
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Now you've established yourself as a voting constituent,
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and they know if you are taking time to meet
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with that staffer, to communicate with that staffer, to write a letter
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to the editor, you represent dozens of people in that district.
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And don't be afraid to say that either. So in a nutshell,
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if you meet with a staffer, I mean, these are the
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people who eventually run for office, build that relationship,
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right? And I think it could be seen as
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a good thing, too, that you're going to talk to a staffer, because maybe you
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can be less intimidated by talking to someone on the staff than
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talking to, you know, a state senator that's been in office for,
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like, 30 years, you know, because you're. You're. You may feel like
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this guy doesn't care, but when you see this young, hungry, you know,
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staffer, and they will go to the senator or the assembly member or the
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delegate or whatever state you're in, whatever they're called, and they will go and tell
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them, you know, what. What you care about. If you were teaching a lobbying
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101, where would you start? Today you're talking a little bit
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about how we create these. Those relationships. So what are
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different ways people can reach out? Yeah.
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Does there have to be a specific bill? Or can
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you just reach out and let them know, you know, like, I voted
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for you, I live in your district, whatever it may be,
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and I really care about animals? That's a great point.
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It could be specific to an issue that is
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important. To you as an individual, to your animal protection
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group in general. Or it could be
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something as simple as, hi, you know, my name is Brian,
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I live in Albany, New York and I'm a
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voter. I'm just wondering what you've done to protect
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animals. Animal protection is an important issue to
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me. Environmental protection, these are some of the things that I
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vote on. And I'd like to start a dialogue to find out, you know,
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what your office is doing and if I could provide you with any information or
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clarification on some issues that might be helpful. The fact
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that you as a constituent are taking time from your
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day. As long as you are polite, so long
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as you don't let your emotions run away, you know,
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in the conversation and you say, you know,
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the representative or the representative staffer may
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not know the issue, may be misinformed
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by opposition or just
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generally unaware. But yeah, that, you know, you, you,
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all you need to do is really reach out to these offices.
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These are just people. They are here to
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hear from you. Right, exactly. You know, that's their job. Yeah.
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And our job as being the voice for animals
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is to take these steps. So, so baby steps, you know,
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so. How are ways people could reach out? Do they make phone calls,
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emails, snail mail? I know you and I have talked
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a lot about snail mail. We are both believers in that.
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It's not just because we're, you know, older.
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I, I really like that. But what are the different ways people can,
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can make those connections? I find that the best way,
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and you know, also coming from a background, having served as a
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local representative, is direct contact. I think,
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you know, we live in an electronic
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society and I think we've gotten lazy and spoiled with
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email or that we can like our way out
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of cruelty by pressing the like. Thank you for saying, you know, we get
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a thrill when we do that, you know, but,
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you know, the best thing to do honestly is to pick up the
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phone to write a letter. You know, communication is
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the easiest thing to do. So if you're asking me what I
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think the most effective thing for a beginner would be,
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either to write a letter. I find that this might sound
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a little old fashioned, but, you know, we've talked about it before. Yeah,
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the handwritten letter on a piece of paper.
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Right. That's what's going to end up. Put some stickers on the
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envelope, someone is going through, someone stand out. Right. Someone's going
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to read that. Right. An email. You know,
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these offices get hundreds and thousands of
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emails every year. So you want to stand out so
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pick up the phone again if there's a specific issue
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or if you just wanted to say, I'm interested
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in what you're doing for animal protection or. I wanted to
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introduce myself. My name is Brian. I'm a community leader on
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animal protection. I support local groups and national
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groups and I'd like to kind of keep the issue of animal protection
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on the radar. But take that big step,
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take that big jump, you know,
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I'll share just a brief story. I'm helping
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my dad out a lot lately and I'm going through a lot
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of the old stuff in the old house. And I found my first letter
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to the editor. Oh, that's awesome. That I wrote in 1979
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when I was 12. Wow. And I
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still have it. And you know, letters to the Ed just, just so you know.
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So they were going to close one of my local schools and
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then I would have to be bused to a different school across town.
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Yeah. And you know, the letter was saying the singing the praises
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of my junior high school. That's awesome for them not to shut it down.
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And again, having that background with parents who encourage this.
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I was speaking at board meetings. Yeah. Don't be afraid. If a 12 year old
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kid can do it, you can do it. That's right. You were born activist.
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But you know, anyone can learn how to be an activist and
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take action. So. Yeah. So let's talk about letters to the
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editor because I think that's really, really good activism
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and I think a lot of people are afraid to write those.
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You know, it's funny, people still enjoy the opinion section.
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Yeah. For myself, I read the New York Times every day.
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First thing I do, I hop to the opinion section.
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I'm interested in that. And a lot of
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people in the community are. Our elected officials
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do read the letters to the editor and kind of feel
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the pulse of what the public is saying. I find
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that you don't have to think of the New York Times
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or, you know, any of the large papers.
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Sometimes your small community papers are the
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best ones and they are always looking for opinions
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and yeah, you know, that's why it's there. And they got to
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fill it up. If you don't have your letter published,
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you can always call the paper and being like, hey, I submitted a letter
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two weeks ago. I'm just wondering if it got misplaced or if,
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you know, there was a problem with it.
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99% of the time, if I don't have something published or
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an editorial or an opinion piece that I send in,
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that does the trick. Right. You know, don't be afraid.
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I think that's probably. This should be called don't be Afraid.
451
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That's right. We should call this episode don't be Afraid.
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Don't be Afraid. Don't be afraid of politicians or newspapers.
453
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No, don't, don't. Those are phobias. So, yeah,
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if there's an issue, as you said, you can see in the paper,
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you don't send a lengthy dissertation.
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Right. You know, keep it short. Right. The kind of thing
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that someone can read in a few seconds. Right. You don't
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have to be an expert in any
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thing. No, I think like when we put out actions,
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you know, and we put on out actions for, you know,
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things to do regarding horse racing, but also, you know,
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when the puppy mill pipeline bill, you know, we always make sure there's
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a script and I know HSUS does that. Other guests we have, if they're
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any kind of community leader or organization, there's always
465
00:28:21,721 --> 00:28:25,241
a script. So find those scripts because they do help you.
466
00:28:25,273 --> 00:28:28,513
And you do not need to be an expert. You don't need to know the
467
00:28:28,529 --> 00:28:31,841
ins and outs of all of it. So that's for both things.
468
00:28:31,913 --> 00:28:34,937
For when you're making calls or writing, you don't, you know,
469
00:28:34,961 --> 00:28:38,297
you don't have to be an expert in the, in the issue. And the squeaky
470
00:28:38,321 --> 00:28:42,417
wheel gets the grease. Absolutely. To always say that because it's absolutely
471
00:28:42,481 --> 00:28:46,039
true. So. No, if I may,
472
00:28:46,127 --> 00:28:49,115
you're absolutely right. You don't have to be an expert.
473
00:28:49,415 --> 00:28:53,395
Even this is just my personal approach.
474
00:28:54,255 --> 00:28:57,959
Some organizers will completely
475
00:28:58,087 --> 00:29:01,951
overload individuals with PowerPoints
476
00:29:02,023 --> 00:29:05,879
and facts and reams of paper.
477
00:29:06,007 --> 00:29:09,615
And then someone walks in the office sweating bullets like, oh my
478
00:29:09,695 --> 00:29:13,019
God, what am I? It's a lot of pressure, right? A lot of pressure.
479
00:29:13,187 --> 00:29:16,867
All you need are a couple of facts. Just like if we
480
00:29:16,891 --> 00:29:20,963
were to have a discussion right now or our listeners were to engage
481
00:29:21,059 --> 00:29:24,971
in this discussion, we would have some facts to share
482
00:29:25,083 --> 00:29:28,867
and have a repartee back and forth and a discussion.
483
00:29:28,971 --> 00:29:32,443
You only need. This is just me. This is just how Brian Shapiro approaches
484
00:29:32,459 --> 00:29:36,861
it. You just need a few facts. And yes, if more are needed,
485
00:29:37,043 --> 00:29:40,585
back to what I said earlier. Now your foot is in the door.
486
00:29:40,705 --> 00:29:43,897
To say to the staffer or the representative, you know,
487
00:29:43,921 --> 00:29:47,881
that is a great question. I think that's really pertinent to this discussion.
488
00:29:47,993 --> 00:29:51,425
Can I get back to you on that? Rule number one,
489
00:29:51,585 --> 00:29:54,697
keep your cool. Rule number two, never,
490
00:29:54,841 --> 00:29:58,265
never, never make up stuff. You'll get
491
00:29:58,305 --> 00:30:01,745
called out. Yes, there's no need to make up stuff. Yes,
492
00:30:01,825 --> 00:30:06,125
we are right. So important. We are right. This is a righteous
493
00:30:06,245 --> 00:30:10,005
issue that we are involved in. You don't need to, you know,
494
00:30:10,085 --> 00:30:13,485
go over the top with emotion. You know, you're a bad person,
495
00:30:13,565 --> 00:30:17,205
or, you know, make up things. Just be cool,
496
00:30:17,325 --> 00:30:21,005
and you can always come back with more information. Build that relationship with
497
00:30:21,045 --> 00:30:25,453
that office. Right? Yeah. Keep a level head and.
498
00:30:25,589 --> 00:30:29,253
Yeah, definitely. It's. It's. It's really. It's hard. It's hard. But,
499
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:32,105
you know, I think it's refreshing now. It's like,
500
00:30:32,595 --> 00:30:36,483
if I meet someone who's friendly after I've been
501
00:30:36,499 --> 00:30:39,763
on the computer all day at work and just. People will
502
00:30:39,819 --> 00:30:43,323
say stuff and this. Everyone knows this, but, you know,
503
00:30:43,499 --> 00:30:47,179
we should repeat it. People will say things in social
504
00:30:47,267 --> 00:30:50,603
media or online that they would never ever.
505
00:30:50,699 --> 00:30:54,507
Say to your face. Ever say to someone's face, like, that's right. What weird
506
00:30:54,611 --> 00:30:58,771
human dynamic is that? You know, what weird wizard
507
00:30:58,803 --> 00:31:01,979
of Oz, hide behind the screen kind of thing is that?
508
00:31:02,067 --> 00:31:05,821
So if you meet someone and you
509
00:31:05,853 --> 00:31:09,541
are friendly and sometimes, look, we still have
510
00:31:09,573 --> 00:31:13,973
this myth about us in the animal protection movement.
511
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:17,581
We scream, we throw blood. You know,
512
00:31:17,693 --> 00:31:21,813
it's like that stereotype of an angry
513
00:31:21,989 --> 00:31:25,709
early 80s activist. Like, let's dispel
514
00:31:25,757 --> 00:31:29,429
that. That's a fallacy. That's a
515
00:31:29,517 --> 00:31:32,995
stereotype. So what, when we
516
00:31:33,035 --> 00:31:36,003
meet someone and we are appealing,
517
00:31:36,139 --> 00:31:39,891
friendly, funny. Right. Humorism. Oh,
518
00:31:39,923 --> 00:31:43,739
I'm really funny when I go in the office. Oh, yeah. It makes
519
00:31:43,787 --> 00:31:47,187
a difference. It makes a difference. It's. It's when you
520
00:31:47,211 --> 00:31:50,619
develop, like, I was hitting, like, every office over and over,
521
00:31:50,707 --> 00:31:54,083
and I would just kind of pop my head and be. Remember me? And did
522
00:31:54,099 --> 00:31:57,563
you talk to the senator yet about that? And, you know, can we get a
523
00:31:57,579 --> 00:32:00,493
meeting? Can we do. You know, and they would smile, you.
524
00:32:00,509 --> 00:32:03,869
Know, so I know when I was in politics, I would have,
525
00:32:04,037 --> 00:32:07,261
you know, some. Some of these board meetings. I just felt like I had
526
00:32:07,293 --> 00:32:10,821
a target on, you know, right on me. And just, you know,
527
00:32:10,893 --> 00:32:14,525
it. It was intense. It was upsetting a lot of times.
528
00:32:14,605 --> 00:32:17,765
Yeah. So when someone approaches me with
529
00:32:17,845 --> 00:32:21,973
a positive attitude as a fellow human being,
530
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:25,941
I'm. I'm receptive to that. Yeah. It's a nice break from
531
00:32:26,053 --> 00:32:29,905
looking at Facebook and someone just saying the most horrendous,
532
00:32:30,045 --> 00:32:33,297
inappropriate stuff. It's like, dude, what do you.
533
00:32:33,361 --> 00:32:37,417
What purpose is this besides some kind of weird psychotherapy session for yourself,
534
00:32:37,521 --> 00:32:41,321
you know? Yeah, it's important to stay on topic and not attack,
535
00:32:41,433 --> 00:32:45,241
because it'll shut. It'll. It shuts anybody down,
536
00:32:45,313 --> 00:32:48,961
you know, if you attack and you're saying, you know, you're an animal abuser because
537
00:32:48,993 --> 00:32:52,465
you're going in to an event, you're. You're supporting
538
00:32:52,505 --> 00:32:56,179
animal abuse and you might not know it. And I think a lot of,
539
00:32:56,337 --> 00:33:00,239
you know, we're talking about the subsidy, the horse racing subsidies, and then there's also
540
00:33:00,407 --> 00:33:04,127
subsidies for agriculture, too. We can talk about that a little bit. A lot
541
00:33:04,151 --> 00:33:07,615
of the cruelty is subsidized around across
542
00:33:07,655 --> 00:33:11,327
the country, on federal level, state levels. But I think that it's
543
00:33:11,351 --> 00:33:14,487
really important for people to understand that some
544
00:33:14,511 --> 00:33:17,887
of these lawmakers were voted in last year
545
00:33:17,991 --> 00:33:21,959
and they have no idea about this because they're not
546
00:33:22,007 --> 00:33:25,671
educated on it. They don't know. They weren't there when this was voted on 10
547
00:33:25,718 --> 00:33:29,427
years ago or 15 years ago. And there's no legislation to
548
00:33:29,451 --> 00:33:33,355
undo it. So maybe you need to educate them about it so they'll
549
00:33:33,515 --> 00:33:37,563
be. They'll want to undo it or they'll want to work on it or,
550
00:33:37,699 --> 00:33:40,331
you know, or whatever. But, you know, can.
551
00:33:40,403 --> 00:33:44,571
Just as we're talking, I'm just thinking. So we are
552
00:33:44,723 --> 00:33:48,531
relatively well off with our situation and quite a bit spoiled.
553
00:33:48,563 --> 00:33:52,307
Nicole, here in New York, like, I have colleagues,
554
00:33:52,411 --> 00:33:55,577
there are state directors in other states
555
00:33:55,771 --> 00:33:59,605
that, in some states that are very heavy with
556
00:33:59,685 --> 00:34:03,597
agriculture, where they view animal advocates,
557
00:34:03,781 --> 00:34:07,309
people who are calling for a strengthening of
558
00:34:07,357 --> 00:34:11,141
animal protection laws addressing sort of our whole
559
00:34:11,213 --> 00:34:14,701
skewed system where big agriculture is calling the
560
00:34:14,733 --> 00:34:18,629
shots. Some of my colleagues
561
00:34:18,677 --> 00:34:22,053
just get dirty looks. They've gotten the finger from representatives
562
00:34:22,109 --> 00:34:25,911
just walking down the halls. So, you know, there, there are, there might
563
00:34:25,943 --> 00:34:29,695
be people in Mississippi or, you know, Iowa or some states
564
00:34:29,735 --> 00:34:33,335
where they're like, you know, Brian, Nicole, it's, it's nice that you're saying that,
565
00:34:33,375 --> 00:34:36,967
but I, they are really not interested
566
00:34:36,991 --> 00:34:40,167
in what I have to say. Right. So now the creativity part
567
00:34:40,231 --> 00:34:43,351
comes out. Like, what can you do in your community?
568
00:34:43,463 --> 00:34:47,071
Right. What can you do to, to change minds?
569
00:34:47,103 --> 00:34:50,871
Maybe if we're talking about, you know, animal suffering, maybe to
570
00:34:50,903 --> 00:34:54,539
talk about how delicious, you know, the Impossible
571
00:34:54,587 --> 00:34:57,731
Hot Dog. Big fan of the Impossible Hot Dog. Oh, my God,
572
00:34:57,843 --> 00:35:01,107
they're so good. Oh, good. We'll put it in the show notes. Where to get
573
00:35:01,131 --> 00:35:04,587
those two? Please do. I think they're going to be available in stores soon.
574
00:35:04,651 --> 00:35:08,083
Yeah, but, you know, they are. Do Hannaford.
575
00:35:08,219 --> 00:35:11,891
Does Hannaford. Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm going to gain ten pounds.
576
00:35:11,923 --> 00:35:15,867
You shouldn't have told me that. But, you know, do what you
577
00:35:15,931 --> 00:35:19,619
can do and, you know, I don't want to give the impression that everything
578
00:35:19,707 --> 00:35:23,603
is just rosy. There are officials just like there's people who
579
00:35:23,619 --> 00:35:26,271
are going to slam the door. Who to be rude.
580
00:35:26,463 --> 00:35:30,175
Well, I don't know. Then I guess you have to find creative ways.
581
00:35:30,215 --> 00:35:33,359
We're sitting here having a podcast, a pleasant conversation,
582
00:35:33,447 --> 00:35:36,887
talking about important stuff. Right. Maybe you need to do
583
00:35:36,911 --> 00:35:40,023
that at home as well. If you're finding that you,
584
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:43,775
you know, don't have avenues, you just got to bring it back. And again,
585
00:35:43,815 --> 00:35:46,943
the responsibility on us let.
586
00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:51,167
They are the emotional ones, right? It's the Puppy Millers
587
00:35:51,271 --> 00:35:55,025
that are emotional. It's the ones that are driving
588
00:35:55,105 --> 00:35:58,513
these horses that lose their minds. It's the ones
589
00:35:58,569 --> 00:36:02,145
that support killing contests, killing the most,
590
00:36:02,225 --> 00:36:06,321
the largest wildlife. When the HSUS and
591
00:36:06,473 --> 00:36:09,833
other groups who join together. And I
592
00:36:09,849 --> 00:36:13,153
have to thank you, Nicole and Patrick were such a
593
00:36:13,169 --> 00:36:17,205
strong part of this ending killing contests for cash
594
00:36:17,625 --> 00:36:21,915
in New York State. The opposition,
595
00:36:23,055 --> 00:36:26,167
they were like they were on the verge of tears.
596
00:36:26,351 --> 00:36:30,231
It's not us, right? Not us. So, you know, we have,
597
00:36:30,343 --> 00:36:33,895
we as animal advocates, again, we have a righteous
598
00:36:33,975 --> 00:36:37,279
position. We should not lose our
599
00:36:37,327 --> 00:36:41,223
cool. Right. And not allow people to press our buttons.
600
00:36:41,359 --> 00:36:44,753
Right. And, and these. And the opposition to what
601
00:36:44,839 --> 00:36:48,037
were trying to do for animals, they, they. Those are.
602
00:36:48,101 --> 00:36:51,885
You were saying earlier, like this vision of lobbyists is this like,
603
00:36:52,045 --> 00:36:55,701
you know, monster type person. Right. Like they're
604
00:36:55,733 --> 00:36:59,701
driving big expensive cars and they're making millions of dollars. But that is
605
00:36:59,853 --> 00:37:03,037
sometimes the opposition, right? So that's the people that we're up
606
00:37:03,061 --> 00:37:06,425
against sometimes are these powerful, you know,
607
00:37:06,885 --> 00:37:09,741
industries, these powerful lobbyists that they hire.
608
00:37:09,853 --> 00:37:13,075
And so how do, how do we,
609
00:37:13,615 --> 00:37:17,583
how do we keep going when we think about that too, I guess people power.
610
00:37:17,679 --> 00:37:21,151
Yeah. You know, people power can change things. And we've seen it time and
611
00:37:21,183 --> 00:37:24,487
time again. You know, I'll talk about Prop 12.
612
00:37:24,551 --> 00:37:28,431
So California, a number of years ago passed a measure called Proposition
613
00:37:28,503 --> 00:37:31,999
12, which basically laid out that
614
00:37:32,047 --> 00:37:35,823
any products sold in the state of California, you know,
615
00:37:35,879 --> 00:37:39,667
agriculture products, meat, eggs, etc. That the
616
00:37:39,731 --> 00:37:43,419
animal has to be raised in standards where they can stand
617
00:37:43,467 --> 00:37:46,815
up, bread their wings and turn around.
618
00:37:47,555 --> 00:37:50,971
This isn't rocket science. This is what for
619
00:37:51,163 --> 00:37:55,459
ages has been referred to as traditional animal husbandry.
620
00:37:55,627 --> 00:37:59,627
Before we turned food and animals into disposable
621
00:37:59,731 --> 00:38:03,331
objects, just a cog in a machine, with no respect for that
622
00:38:03,403 --> 00:38:07,031
life of the animal. So that
623
00:38:07,103 --> 00:38:10,687
passed and there was big opposition. And the HS
624
00:38:10,751 --> 00:38:14,871
US also helped keep this. And the
625
00:38:14,903 --> 00:38:18,231
Supreme Court decided that it wasn't going to hear the case.
626
00:38:18,303 --> 00:38:22,247
I believe it was sent back to a lower court. So these
627
00:38:22,271 --> 00:38:26,127
types of things with the money Lobbyists with the opposition,
628
00:38:26,311 --> 00:38:29,879
the agriculture industry and others. This stuff
629
00:38:29,927 --> 00:38:33,115
goes all the way to the top. But people power,
630
00:38:33,435 --> 00:38:36,935
as things change, as people. You know,
631
00:38:37,595 --> 00:38:40,843
you remember like when we were kids, people would look at you
632
00:38:40,899 --> 00:38:44,315
like you had three heads if you said you were a vegetarian.
633
00:38:44,435 --> 00:38:48,099
Right, right. We've come so far away from that. So I think,
634
00:38:48,147 --> 00:38:51,795
don't be intimidated. I am a registered lobbyist,
635
00:38:51,835 --> 00:38:54,939
as I mentioned before. You know, I lobby
636
00:38:54,987 --> 00:38:58,611
for animals and for the environment and that's
637
00:38:58,643 --> 00:39:01,957
the system that we have. And you at home can be
638
00:39:01,981 --> 00:39:05,685
a citizen lobbyist too. And you know, we have had
639
00:39:05,725 --> 00:39:09,653
many success stories of taking on these big outdated
640
00:39:09,749 --> 00:39:13,437
industries. And talk about some of your success stories.
641
00:39:13,581 --> 00:39:16,821
What we were talk. Well, two things we talked about.
642
00:39:16,933 --> 00:39:19,785
Really great bills have passed in New York state in the last few years.
643
00:39:20,325 --> 00:39:23,733
Nicole, you brought up the puppy mill pipeline bill.
644
00:39:23,869 --> 00:39:27,125
So here in New York state we refer to the
645
00:39:27,165 --> 00:39:30,557
pipeline of animals brought in from other states
646
00:39:30,621 --> 00:39:34,145
in New York that are raised in puppy mills. A puppy
647
00:39:34,185 --> 00:39:37,785
mill is essentially a factory where animals are raised,
648
00:39:37,865 --> 00:39:41,481
where profit is the number one goal. And there is no or
649
00:39:41,593 --> 00:39:45,113
very little attention paid to the well being of the
650
00:39:45,169 --> 00:39:49,325
animal itself. Again, just raised as cogs in a machine.
651
00:39:50,105 --> 00:39:53,297
So you can go in more depth if you want to about any
652
00:39:53,321 --> 00:39:57,001
of these as you're speaking about it, because maybe people are listening
653
00:39:57,033 --> 00:40:00,841
from another state who has no, no bill like
654
00:40:00,873 --> 00:40:04,625
this, you know, and what happens to those, to those dogs,
655
00:40:04,665 --> 00:40:08,417
cats and, and, and please mention how rabbits got into the mix here because
656
00:40:08,441 --> 00:40:11,905
we have a, we have a bunny in our house that you love. You love
657
00:40:11,945 --> 00:40:14,921
stories with your bunny. Yeah, you have. So,
658
00:40:15,073 --> 00:40:17,645
so go ahead. Sorry to interrupt. No, no, you didn't interrupt.
659
00:40:17,945 --> 00:40:21,633
So you know animals in pet
660
00:40:21,689 --> 00:40:25,017
stores, brick and mortar pet stores, something we all grew up with.
661
00:40:25,081 --> 00:40:28,407
You know that 1952 hit, how much is that
662
00:40:28,431 --> 00:40:32,135
puppy in the window? Right. Where'd those puppies come from?
663
00:40:32,295 --> 00:40:35,735
You know, when we first started addressing the issue
664
00:40:35,775 --> 00:40:39,607
of puppy mill cruelty, we all have different points and speaking
665
00:40:39,671 --> 00:40:43,543
styles and that's how it always introduce it. Where do they come
666
00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:46,751
from? Right. And a lot of times I would get blank stares. No one,
667
00:40:46,823 --> 00:40:50,535
you know, people have it in their mind like, I don't know, a grandma
668
00:40:50,615 --> 00:40:53,855
down the road had an accident. They just show up at the store. And she
669
00:40:53,895 --> 00:40:57,103
brings them to the store and they frolic in the glass
670
00:40:57,159 --> 00:41:00,859
with the shrimp dreaded newspaper. When there's actually filthy,
671
00:41:00,907 --> 00:41:05,075
disgusting factories that have innumerable
672
00:41:05,235 --> 00:41:08,715
Animal Welfare act violations. The USDA does
673
00:41:08,755 --> 00:41:12,043
a very poor job of regulating it
674
00:41:12,059 --> 00:41:15,883
is the lowest priority for the US Department of Agriculture
675
00:41:16,059 --> 00:41:20,171
to monitor these large scale breeders.
676
00:41:20,363 --> 00:41:24,083
So New York, it was, it was a battle, you know, you guys
677
00:41:24,139 --> 00:41:27,779
joined it. There were, there are thousands and thousands of animal
678
00:41:27,827 --> 00:41:31,763
advocates and groups. So starting this year, New York
679
00:41:31,819 --> 00:41:34,931
will no longer allow the sale of dogs,
680
00:41:35,003 --> 00:41:38,175
cats and rabbits in brick and mortar pet stores.
681
00:41:38,555 --> 00:41:42,515
Because the pet stores always get
682
00:41:42,555 --> 00:41:46,323
the animals from these out of state puppy mills.
683
00:41:46,419 --> 00:41:49,667
Why? Because it's cheap. They just go on the
684
00:41:49,691 --> 00:41:52,733
puppy mill website for the breeder,
685
00:41:52,909 --> 00:41:56,389
they click, click, click, click. I want that, that, that.
686
00:41:56,437 --> 00:41:59,637
And a couple days later, the truck comes, stops in New
687
00:41:59,661 --> 00:42:03,589
York, goes on its way up to Boston. Right. And the
688
00:42:03,677 --> 00:42:06,701
product, these animals are dropped off.
689
00:42:06,773 --> 00:42:09,997
Meanwhile, the mother rots in a cage and is often
690
00:42:10,061 --> 00:42:13,861
taken out back and shot after the animal has just produced litter
691
00:42:13,893 --> 00:42:16,771
after litter. So we can have cute, adorable, you know,
692
00:42:16,803 --> 00:42:20,987
designer dogs in our homes. Right. So we passed this law.
693
00:42:21,171 --> 00:42:24,603
There was a lot of money put into it. Again, you know, we're here in
694
00:42:24,619 --> 00:42:28,067
New York, so it was a lot of the pet stores on Long Island.
695
00:42:28,131 --> 00:42:32,179
We're pumping millions of dollars into stopping our
696
00:42:32,227 --> 00:42:36,355
legislation. We got bipartisan
697
00:42:36,435 --> 00:42:39,563
support and it was only because of, you know,
698
00:42:39,619 --> 00:42:42,859
people like our listeners contacting their
699
00:42:42,907 --> 00:42:46,003
legislators, using those talking points. Right.
700
00:42:46,139 --> 00:42:49,907
You know, and we, again, it was not a Republican Democrat
701
00:42:49,971 --> 00:42:53,235
thing. Right. And we passed it and other,
702
00:42:53,315 --> 00:42:57,099
other states can as, as well. And this is overwhelmingly.
703
00:42:57,187 --> 00:43:00,579
The New York state legislature supported this bill. It was huge.
704
00:43:00,707 --> 00:43:04,187
You did great work. And we did. You know, it's funny you
705
00:43:04,211 --> 00:43:07,843
mentioned how were rabbits included? Yeah. So at some
706
00:43:07,899 --> 00:43:11,363
point we had to amend the bill because each
707
00:43:11,459 --> 00:43:15,577
session in New York, a session lasts
708
00:43:15,641 --> 00:43:19,601
two years. Every state has different sessions for their legislature.
709
00:43:19,713 --> 00:43:23,193
So, you know, it's good to maybe kind of get an
710
00:43:23,209 --> 00:43:25,825
idea of how your local state, you know,
711
00:43:25,945 --> 00:43:27,765
legislature works.
712
00:43:29,385 --> 00:43:32,905
We were able to lobby this. We had to put in a change.
713
00:43:32,985 --> 00:43:36,825
And you know, I. Rabbits are the third most surrendered
714
00:43:36,865 --> 00:43:40,861
animal in shelters. And it just seemed like a good idea that rabbit should
715
00:43:40,893 --> 00:43:44,973
be included in this. And it was really an HS
716
00:43:45,029 --> 00:43:48,645
US advocate. I'm going to give a shout out to Judy
717
00:43:48,685 --> 00:43:52,709
from Yonkers, you know, for constantly saying, Brian, you know,
718
00:43:52,837 --> 00:43:55,253
why don't we do this, why don't we do this? I was like, yeah,
719
00:43:55,309 --> 00:43:58,613
you know, I think we can. And I
720
00:43:58,629 --> 00:44:01,805
was always concerned that somewhere along the line someone
721
00:44:01,845 --> 00:44:05,101
would take rabbits out of it. But they were so focused on
722
00:44:05,133 --> 00:44:08,835
the big money they're making from the, the dogs
723
00:44:09,215 --> 00:44:12,759
that, you know, it will be illegal to, for pet
724
00:44:12,807 --> 00:44:15,999
stores, brick and mortar pet stores to sell rabbits and shops along with,
725
00:44:16,047 --> 00:44:19,743
with cats and dogs. Snowball is very happy and he's happy for his
726
00:44:19,839 --> 00:44:22,767
cat and dog friends, too. Yes.
727
00:44:22,831 --> 00:44:26,391
So, and as someone who held a sign weeks before Easter
728
00:44:26,463 --> 00:44:30,415
every year out front of the mall and different area malls with
729
00:44:30,455 --> 00:44:33,735
the not just for Easter sign to let people know that bunnies
730
00:44:33,775 --> 00:44:37,053
are a 10 year commitment at least. You know,
731
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:40,701
and people, you know, buy, they buy dogs,
732
00:44:40,733 --> 00:44:44,101
they buy cats as gifts and they buy bunnies as gifts.
733
00:44:44,173 --> 00:44:47,589
And of course, there's other animals we haven't gotten to yet,
734
00:44:47,637 --> 00:44:51,365
but there is some movement on some legislation in small
735
00:44:51,405 --> 00:44:54,925
jurisdictions on other animals and pet stores. So, yes, New York
736
00:44:54,965 --> 00:44:58,477
City banned the sale of guinea pigs. Yes. And, you know,
737
00:44:58,501 --> 00:45:01,853
that was important shout out to voters for animal rights out
738
00:45:01,869 --> 00:45:04,585
of New York City for leading that effort.
739
00:45:05,285 --> 00:45:08,425
Animal care centers in New York City was deluged,
740
00:45:08,885 --> 00:45:12,525
particularly during and after the pandemic, with guinea pigs,
741
00:45:12,565 --> 00:45:16,677
because they are cheap. You could buy a guinea pig in New York City for
742
00:45:16,821 --> 00:45:20,877
what would be the cost of a beer, a single drink in
743
00:45:20,901 --> 00:45:23,981
a store. And they are easily disposed of.
744
00:45:24,053 --> 00:45:27,821
And people were abandoning them in parks, in the
745
00:45:27,853 --> 00:45:32,489
foyers of apartment buildings, and it was impacting
746
00:45:32,657 --> 00:45:36,145
the city's sheltering system. So, yeah,
747
00:45:36,225 --> 00:45:39,753
there's a reason why these, these laws are being passed and those. Guinea pigs were
748
00:45:39,769 --> 00:45:43,217
winding up in shelters and shelters. And what happens to them when
749
00:45:43,241 --> 00:45:46,801
they're just let out in the wild like people do with rabbits, too? So they're
750
00:45:46,833 --> 00:45:50,609
being killed by predators. Yes. Or they die a horrible death
751
00:45:50,737 --> 00:45:53,825
in the winter. Starve. Yeah. So, you know, that was one
752
00:45:53,865 --> 00:45:57,473
example of a bill that was very popular with the public,
753
00:45:57,529 --> 00:46:00,901
that had bipartisan support. I think,
754
00:46:00,933 --> 00:46:04,677
if I may, a tougher sell was addressing wildlife
755
00:46:04,741 --> 00:46:07,941
killing contests, which, with your help, you know,
756
00:46:07,973 --> 00:46:11,949
and so many advocates tell us what that is. A wildlife killing
757
00:46:11,997 --> 00:46:15,125
contest. Because people they live in, if you live in a city, you're not going
758
00:46:15,625 --> 00:46:19,821
to know what this is. So a killing contest is killing
759
00:46:20,013 --> 00:46:23,745
the most wildlife. The squirrels,
760
00:46:24,525 --> 00:46:27,343
raccoons, fox,
761
00:46:27,479 --> 00:46:30,111
coyotes, crows,
762
00:46:30,263 --> 00:46:33,575
rabbits. Piles and piles of these dead animals.
763
00:46:33,655 --> 00:46:37,839
And then you count them or you weigh them. Who has killed the heaviest
764
00:46:38,007 --> 00:46:42,315
fox? Which coyote has the bushiest tail?
765
00:46:42,655 --> 00:46:46,511
And then cash and prizes are awarded and the animals are thrown into the
766
00:46:46,543 --> 00:46:49,935
garbage. It is sick. It's sick. It's no sick.
767
00:46:49,975 --> 00:46:53,653
It's cruel. It's teaching children to not care about
768
00:46:53,709 --> 00:46:57,365
animals. It's desensitizing children because children are involved
769
00:46:57,445 --> 00:47:00,785
in this process. It's, it's really, really awful.
770
00:47:01,205 --> 00:47:04,421
When we, the hsus, did a number of
771
00:47:04,453 --> 00:47:07,645
undercover investigations, and I think the, the one that really
772
00:47:07,685 --> 00:47:11,717
clinched it for us was the. The largest killing
773
00:47:11,781 --> 00:47:15,685
contest in the state in Sullivan County. Undercover footage of
774
00:47:15,725 --> 00:47:20,065
coyotes being thrown into garbage dumpsters filled with trash.
775
00:47:21,695 --> 00:47:25,543
Legislators were not aware of that. And you know what got this.
776
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,399
We were talking before about building alliances
777
00:47:29,567 --> 00:47:32,975
and finding stakeholders. This will
778
00:47:33,015 --> 00:47:36,271
go into effect this year. It was a hard fought campaign.
779
00:47:36,463 --> 00:47:40,087
It was traditional hunters who came out and supported us and
780
00:47:40,111 --> 00:47:43,655
said, this is not hunting. This is a disgrace. Wow.
781
00:47:43,695 --> 00:47:46,663
Sometimes unlikely, you know, partnerships,
782
00:47:46,759 --> 00:47:50,279
unorthodox partnerships. Make them, make those unorthodox
783
00:47:50,367 --> 00:47:54,491
partnerships so, you know, know, so we can get things passed.
784
00:47:54,603 --> 00:47:57,867
So, yeah, New York is, as of this fall is going to
785
00:47:57,891 --> 00:48:01,015
be, I think, the 11th state. Don't quote me on that.
786
00:48:01,435 --> 00:48:04,163
You know, I think that might be right. It might be right.
787
00:48:04,339 --> 00:48:08,875
It's around there. Sounds right. Yeah. And New Jersey has very active legislation
788
00:48:09,035 --> 00:48:12,715
as well to, to end and
789
00:48:12,755 --> 00:48:16,923
prohibit this waste of our public resources.
790
00:48:17,099 --> 00:48:20,751
And you know, it's funny because obviously
791
00:48:20,863 --> 00:48:25,111
you, I, the listeners, we find it abhorrent. It's disgusting.
792
00:48:25,303 --> 00:48:29,663
But the point that I made to legislators, I took all the emotion out.
793
00:48:29,839 --> 00:48:33,519
The point that I made was that this is not traditional
794
00:48:33,567 --> 00:48:37,391
hunting. This is a waste of our shared public resources
795
00:48:37,503 --> 00:48:41,319
which. And we had strong support from the environmental community groups
796
00:48:41,367 --> 00:48:43,595
such as the Adirondack Council,
797
00:48:44,505 --> 00:48:47,729
the North, the Atlantic chapter of the Sierra Club,
798
00:48:47,857 --> 00:48:51,585
Protect the Adirondacks. You know, there was a strong environmental
799
00:48:51,705 --> 00:48:54,513
contingent that helped us get this pass.
800
00:48:54,649 --> 00:48:58,329
But sometimes you have to word things
801
00:48:58,377 --> 00:49:02,057
in a certain way and again, take the emotion out of it. Let the emotion
802
00:49:02,121 --> 00:49:05,377
drive us, let the emotion inspire us. But when we go
803
00:49:05,401 --> 00:49:08,897
to work, you know, we have to craft our messages in
804
00:49:08,921 --> 00:49:12,617
a certain way to pass legislation. Right, right. It's still about the
805
00:49:12,641 --> 00:49:15,929
animals. We have to make it about the animals too, but also make it about,
806
00:49:16,057 --> 00:49:19,201
you know, talk about all the talking points too.
807
00:49:19,353 --> 00:49:22,649
I know when I went into offices
808
00:49:22,697 --> 00:49:26,017
to talk about the subsidies, if that senator or
809
00:49:26,041 --> 00:49:29,985
assembly member was on education committee, I led
810
00:49:30,105 --> 00:49:33,446
with education and said, you know, we have $230
811
00:49:33,579 --> 00:49:36,873
million going, propping up the horse racing industry with no public
812
00:49:36,929 --> 00:49:39,575
benefit. This is at the expense of school children.
813
00:49:39,875 --> 00:49:43,283
And we have horses suffering and dying every day.
814
00:49:43,339 --> 00:49:45,739
Do we want to be known for that in New York State? And they,
815
00:49:45,787 --> 00:49:48,923
they listened. It was like I grabbed them with what interested them and then got
816
00:49:48,939 --> 00:49:52,147
the animals, you know, in there too, because I couldn't walk out of there without
817
00:49:52,211 --> 00:49:55,395
talking about the horses. Yeah. So. And also,
818
00:49:55,555 --> 00:49:59,555
I think it's really interesting to know as you're talking about these victories
819
00:49:59,595 --> 00:50:03,397
and these bills that, you know, that you've
820
00:50:03,421 --> 00:50:06,341
had passed. It wasn't just you alone.
821
00:50:06,533 --> 00:50:10,309
So you count on regular people to
822
00:50:10,437 --> 00:50:13,709
do this. So we don't want people to be like, oh, well, I probably have
823
00:50:13,757 --> 00:50:17,077
a Brian in my state and I don't need to do anything because I have
824
00:50:17,101 --> 00:50:20,585
a Brian, I have an HSUS or I have ADLF or whatever.
825
00:50:21,165 --> 00:50:24,381
Folks who are listening, you need to be the Nicole, you need to be the
826
00:50:24,413 --> 00:50:27,545
Patrick, you need to be the Bryans in your communities.
827
00:50:28,325 --> 00:50:31,723
And there's nothing special about me. I'm just a
828
00:50:31,739 --> 00:50:35,459
dude who believes in protecting animals and kind of pays
829
00:50:35,507 --> 00:50:39,135
attention. Like, oh, that's how you speak at a public meeting.
830
00:50:39,435 --> 00:50:42,947
Oh, that's the formula for a successful letter to the
831
00:50:42,971 --> 00:50:46,363
editor. Oh, that's why a
832
00:50:46,379 --> 00:50:49,763
bill in the assembly has an A before it and then the number.
833
00:50:49,819 --> 00:50:53,455
And a bill in the Senate has an S before it and a number.
834
00:50:54,035 --> 00:50:57,075
If you're into it, learn about it. And I can't
835
00:50:57,115 --> 00:51:01,003
stress this enough. This is heavy stuff we're talking about,
836
00:51:01,179 --> 00:51:04,747
but enjoy it. Have fun. Yeah, have fun participating.
837
00:51:04,931 --> 00:51:08,731
I was just thinking that, like, we, you and I are
838
00:51:08,763 --> 00:51:12,051
like, all about the power to the people. Power of.
839
00:51:12,163 --> 00:51:15,099
Power to the people. Power of the people. And.
840
00:51:15,267 --> 00:51:17,779
And the people do have the power. And I,
841
00:51:17,947 --> 00:51:21,815
It's. I wish it was infectious because I
842
00:51:22,155 --> 00:51:24,923
love it so much and I believe in it so much that I wish I
843
00:51:24,939 --> 00:51:27,907
could just, like, breathe on somebody and they could get my sickness about it.
844
00:51:27,971 --> 00:51:31,703
My good sickness. Yes. Because I do think that, you know,
845
00:51:31,839 --> 00:51:35,535
we elect these people and they need to listen to us and
846
00:51:35,615 --> 00:51:38,727
we can't just say, oh, they're not going to listen to us and not do
847
00:51:38,751 --> 00:51:41,799
anything. No. And if they're not listening again,
848
00:51:41,887 --> 00:51:44,703
you, you know, you find other ways to do it.
849
00:51:44,799 --> 00:51:48,039
This is our raison d'etre. You know, our reason to
850
00:51:48,087 --> 00:51:52,599
be is to help make this a more humane society
851
00:51:52,727 --> 00:51:56,311
for all animals, to fight for all animals.
852
00:51:56,503 --> 00:52:00,995
And yeah, there are some legislators out there in certain areas who
853
00:52:01,545 --> 00:52:04,977
don't care. I mean, that's, that's just a fact. Not all
854
00:52:05,001 --> 00:52:08,337
of them. I think it's a minority. Right. But, you know,
855
00:52:08,401 --> 00:52:12,345
if, if they're in league with Big Ag or with the Puppy
856
00:52:12,385 --> 00:52:15,801
Millers, we still need to get our message out
857
00:52:15,833 --> 00:52:19,745
there. Right. And feel free. You know, perhaps on the podcast at some point
858
00:52:19,785 --> 00:52:22,809
I could give my email address. Folks know how to reach out to you.
859
00:52:22,857 --> 00:52:25,977
Oh, yeah, we'll just have ideas. Yeah, yeah,
860
00:52:26,041 --> 00:52:29,181
definitely. I think. And how do people. We don't have to do,
861
00:52:29,213 --> 00:52:31,813
like, how a bill becomes a law or anything like that. I don't think.
862
00:52:31,869 --> 00:52:34,733
But, you know, but we. We can talk about that if you want to.
863
00:52:34,789 --> 00:52:38,045
I. I think we should just keep it simple. And. And also,
864
00:52:38,165 --> 00:52:41,389
how do. How do people find out?
865
00:52:41,477 --> 00:52:44,661
Not everybody knows. And it's nothing to be ashamed
866
00:52:44,693 --> 00:52:48,013
of or embarrassed. What if you don't know who your
867
00:52:48,109 --> 00:52:51,165
state reps are? Go ahead.
868
00:52:51,285 --> 00:52:54,485
Cool. So the Schoolhouse Rock,
869
00:52:54,525 --> 00:52:57,421
you know, the video of how availability that. That. I mean,
870
00:52:57,453 --> 00:53:00,669
that's just classic. And that. That really is, for the most part,
871
00:53:00,717 --> 00:53:03,781
how it works. I'll speak how things work
872
00:53:03,813 --> 00:53:06,325
in New York state, which I'm gonna put that. In the show notes because it's
873
00:53:06,825 --> 00:53:09,661
a fun video. Oh, my God. It is a fun video. Definitely a trip back
874
00:53:09,693 --> 00:53:13,025
in time. That's right. Total 1974 stuff.
875
00:53:14,045 --> 00:53:17,629
So someone will have an idea for a bill
876
00:53:17,717 --> 00:53:21,165
or a law, whether it's the representative or a
877
00:53:21,205 --> 00:53:24,945
constituent, you can come to a representative. Happens all the time.
878
00:53:25,405 --> 00:53:28,885
I have an idea. I'd like you to put in a piece of legislation
879
00:53:28,965 --> 00:53:32,645
for me. So in most legislatures,
880
00:53:32,765 --> 00:53:36,061
a state legislature is combined as a
881
00:53:36,093 --> 00:53:39,509
term for both houses. So in New York,
882
00:53:39,557 --> 00:53:43,461
we have the assembly, and then the higher chamber
883
00:53:43,533 --> 00:53:46,919
is the Senate, just like at the national level.
884
00:53:47,037 --> 00:53:50,379
Right. So you need to have a sponsor in both. You need a senator
885
00:53:50,467 --> 00:53:53,659
to sponsor a particular bill. You need
886
00:53:53,707 --> 00:53:57,411
an assembly member. By the end of the process, it goes through
887
00:53:57,443 --> 00:54:01,419
all of your committees. In New York, we don't have hearings, but there are
888
00:54:01,507 --> 00:54:04,979
hearings in other states where the public is heard.
889
00:54:05,027 --> 00:54:09,571
You can submit letters, you can submit testimony. The legislation
890
00:54:09,723 --> 00:54:13,203
from the assembly or the House. And the Senate needs to
891
00:54:13,219 --> 00:54:17,445
be exactly the same, and it has to pass both committees.
892
00:54:17,605 --> 00:54:20,485
Those are companion bills, right? Is that what they're called? Yes. Correct.
893
00:54:20,525 --> 00:54:24,789
Or same as. Same as. Right. And sometimes
894
00:54:24,837 --> 00:54:27,824
a bill has to go through 1, 2,
895
00:54:27,929 --> 00:54:31,213
3, 4 committees, you know, so it
896
00:54:31,229 --> 00:54:35,109
is a lengthy process. I would say for most annual bills, it takes at least
897
00:54:35,197 --> 00:54:38,877
five years for something to get passed.
898
00:54:39,061 --> 00:54:42,437
And then once all of that is done, we all pat ourselves
899
00:54:42,501 --> 00:54:46,225
on the back. When the legislature votes for it now the governor has to sign
900
00:54:46,265 --> 00:54:49,545
it. Right. So it is a long process
901
00:54:49,625 --> 00:54:53,017
and takes commitment to do so.
902
00:54:53,041 --> 00:54:56,745
When you hear that, you know, horse racing wrongs, or the
903
00:54:56,785 --> 00:55:00,289
HS US or, you know, voters for animal
904
00:55:00,337 --> 00:55:04,329
rights successfully passed a bill, it is a
905
00:55:04,377 --> 00:55:07,649
long road and there's a lot of work that goes into it.
906
00:55:07,737 --> 00:55:11,663
And that's why we need people to help. That's why we need people to help.
907
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:15,451
I, as the listeners can hear, both you and I
908
00:55:15,563 --> 00:55:18,979
have years of experience and knowledge in these
909
00:55:19,027 --> 00:55:23,307
systems for people who don't have this. Don't be intimidated.
910
00:55:23,371 --> 00:55:26,615
Like I've been doing this since like the 1980s.
911
00:55:27,395 --> 00:55:30,499
If someone doesn't know who their representative is, no shame
912
00:55:30,547 --> 00:55:34,291
in that. There's so much media stuff going on. It's sometimes very hard.
913
00:55:34,363 --> 00:55:38,699
Sometimes up from down. Yeah, sometimes there's only one or two legislators
914
00:55:38,787 --> 00:55:41,803
that are in the news all the time. So those are the only ones,
915
00:55:41,819 --> 00:55:45,499
you know. Right. So it's like whoever's, you know, maybe they're,
916
00:55:45,587 --> 00:55:48,811
you know, leader, leadership or whatever, or they're just an
917
00:55:48,843 --> 00:55:52,355
Albany legislator or the most outspoken and that's
918
00:55:52,395 --> 00:55:55,595
all. You know. If you people have been asked, I've seen this,
919
00:55:55,715 --> 00:55:59,891
just random people name a congressperson, they'll be like Marjorie Taylor
920
00:55:59,923 --> 00:56:03,387
Greene. And it doesn't matter what you are. Right. You know, because it's the one
921
00:56:03,411 --> 00:56:06,923
they. See the most, one that's the most coverage. So how
922
00:56:06,939 --> 00:56:10,151
do we. Every state has it. Yes. Right. So you go on
923
00:56:10,183 --> 00:56:14,103
to your, you type in Google. I love Google. So just
924
00:56:14,159 --> 00:56:17,783
go on Google. You could put, bring it down to. The basic, easiest way to
925
00:56:17,799 --> 00:56:22,231
do this. Zip code. Yep. My representatives or representatives
926
00:56:22,303 --> 00:56:25,823
for. And then your zip code. Or, or my. Or find my New
927
00:56:25,839 --> 00:56:29,671
York State senator. Yes. And then usually what it will ask for,
928
00:56:29,743 --> 00:56:33,583
because voting districts will sometimes
929
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,275
go transcend. They don't follow town boundaries.
930
00:56:37,575 --> 00:56:40,367
So it usually goes by zip code. Right. You know,
931
00:56:40,431 --> 00:56:43,743
you might be in, you are in one assembly district
932
00:56:43,799 --> 00:56:48,007
in New York State or you might be in a senate district. So you
933
00:56:48,031 --> 00:56:51,143
know another way call your town clerk. You know,
934
00:56:51,279 --> 00:56:54,671
I love town clerks. Your small time town clerk,
935
00:56:54,783 --> 00:56:58,311
they are sitting there and their staff are there. The clerk's job is
936
00:56:58,343 --> 00:57:01,079
to help you. Right. You can also call the clerk and be like,
937
00:57:01,127 --> 00:57:04,433
hey, who's my, who are my representatives?
938
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:07,981
And get the whole breakdown. And that's good because you're making calls to your
939
00:57:08,053 --> 00:57:11,373
elected people and you're getting over that fear. Right.
940
00:57:11,469 --> 00:57:14,865
Because the town clerk, it's a good exercise. Absolutely.
941
00:57:15,285 --> 00:57:18,989
So we, we may have a page still on
942
00:57:19,037 --> 00:57:22,589
our horse racing wrongs website where it has all of those. It's like,
943
00:57:22,677 --> 00:57:26,349
it's like a search tool that every, every state government has.
944
00:57:26,397 --> 00:57:29,525
And you can do, you can type into Google like find my New York state
945
00:57:29,565 --> 00:57:32,133
senator. And then you'll go to the senator tool and you put in your zip
946
00:57:32,149 --> 00:57:34,317
code like you said. Or sometimes you have to put in your whole name and
947
00:57:34,341 --> 00:57:37,411
address. Do not be afraid of this. I have seen
948
00:57:37,443 --> 00:57:39,739
people say, well, I don't want to put in my name and address. I'm like,
949
00:57:39,827 --> 00:57:43,667
why dude, they know who you are. Like if you have a driver's license,
950
00:57:43,731 --> 00:57:46,443
they know who you are. If you get mail, they know who you are.
951
00:57:46,539 --> 00:57:49,339
No one's going to come after you. No one's going to be afraid if.
952
00:57:49,347 --> 00:57:52,435
You have one of the cards for the supermarket to get your, you know,
953
00:57:52,475 --> 00:57:56,387
discount on bananas. Like, they know who you are. We're all, we're all microchipped.
954
00:57:56,411 --> 00:58:00,179
No, but they know who you are. So I think. But that's a really
955
00:58:00,227 --> 00:58:04,197
easy way. So really quick. We were just doing how bill becomes
956
00:58:04,221 --> 00:58:08,157
a law. And you're very good at saying everything in a really non complicated
957
00:58:08,221 --> 00:58:11,581
way. Is there a different way to say that? A non complicated way
958
00:58:11,653 --> 00:58:14,545
that does it Very easy. Yeah. So.
959
00:58:14,925 --> 00:58:18,653
So sometimes we're talking about those committees that sometimes
960
00:58:18,709 --> 00:58:22,425
we will ask people to call committee members
961
00:58:22,885 --> 00:58:26,293
and they might not be your representative. So that does happen sometimes. Right.
962
00:58:26,349 --> 00:58:29,149
So you're calling, you know,
963
00:58:29,317 --> 00:58:32,749
so maybe you're in New York City, but it's an ag committee and there's.
964
00:58:32,797 --> 00:58:36,101
It's a lot of, you know, agricultural type, you know,
965
00:58:36,173 --> 00:58:39,701
upstate. And you know, this is very rural. So it's New York City and then
966
00:58:39,773 --> 00:58:43,189
farm or land. That's interesting. You're right. So in,
967
00:58:43,277 --> 00:58:46,965
in New York, most of our animal protection laws go
968
00:58:47,005 --> 00:58:51,309
through either the Agriculture Committee. Right. Or the Environmental Conservation
969
00:58:51,397 --> 00:58:55,039
Committee at times. There's other committees. Like one of
970
00:58:55,047 --> 00:58:58,639
the bills that we are working on is to eliminate
971
00:58:58,807 --> 00:59:02,823
breed discrimination in the issuance of renters insurance
972
00:59:02,919 --> 00:59:06,135
policies. Right. We were able to pass a bill
973
00:59:06,255 --> 00:59:09,687
addressing homeowners, that homeowners can be
974
00:59:09,711 --> 00:59:12,887
discriminated against if they have a bully breed or a
975
00:59:12,911 --> 00:59:16,463
big dog. So the insurance
976
00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:20,635
committee oversees that. Yeah, there's lots of committees with subsidies.
977
00:59:20,975 --> 00:59:24,347
There are specific committees. Ways and Means. Thank you.
978
00:59:24,431 --> 00:59:27,851
Yes. So you know where to
979
00:59:27,883 --> 00:59:31,715
go with all of this? Follow the advice of trusted
980
00:59:31,755 --> 00:59:35,275
organizations that you're working with because at any
981
00:59:35,315 --> 00:59:38,723
given point you'll be contacting one
982
00:59:38,779 --> 00:59:41,843
committee and then it might seem confusing,
983
00:59:41,979 --> 00:59:45,227
then you're contacting another committee. I mean, it's like a game of football.
984
00:59:45,291 --> 00:59:48,491
The ball's bouncing all over the place. So don't
985
00:59:48,523 --> 00:59:52,325
get confused. But listen to, to Nicole and Patrick. Yeah. Watch those
986
00:59:52,365 --> 00:59:55,589
action alerts. You know, watch the action. This is who we're calling today and this
987
00:59:55,597 --> 00:59:59,141
is who we're calling next week. You know, and don't be afraid to ask
988
00:59:59,173 --> 01:00:02,581
questions too. There's no such thing as a dumb question. That's right.
989
01:00:02,733 --> 01:00:05,665
It's so, it's so important. So.
990
01:00:06,365 --> 01:00:09,917
Okay, let me ask you this question and I Don't know how you're
991
01:00:09,941 --> 01:00:14,013
going to answer it, but if so, we have an election coming up.
992
01:00:14,189 --> 01:00:17,941
So if we. In November, in January, there's going to be
993
01:00:18,093 --> 01:00:21,397
someone new may be sworn in. So maybe my state senator will
994
01:00:21,461 --> 01:00:24,449
change. So. And we might have talked about this earlier,
995
01:00:24,497 --> 01:00:28,457
but I just want to kind of reiterate that whole, you know, building that relationship.
996
01:00:28,641 --> 01:00:32,193
If I wanted to introduce myself, how would I.
997
01:00:32,249 --> 01:00:35,185
How would I do that? And we talked about, like, calls and. But we're.
998
01:00:35,225 --> 01:00:39,145
Call the district office. Would we. Would we want to reach
999
01:00:39,185 --> 01:00:42,881
out? If it's just a general contact, if it's not for
1000
01:00:42,913 --> 01:00:46,441
a particular ask or a particular bill. Excellent. What would
1001
01:00:46,473 --> 01:00:48,849
we. Who would we reach out to? So you bring up a good point.
1002
01:00:48,897 --> 01:00:52,695
Many representatives have various district
1003
01:00:52,815 --> 01:00:56,455
offices. You know, a state senator might, if it's a large
1004
01:00:56,575 --> 01:01:00,367
district, might have two or three district offices.
1005
01:01:00,431 --> 01:01:03,495
So they're more localized. And then you'll have an
1006
01:01:03,535 --> 01:01:06,271
office. They will have an office at the state capitol.
1007
01:01:06,463 --> 01:01:10,039
So, you know, if you're just doing an introduction,
1008
01:01:10,167 --> 01:01:13,519
sometimes the district office is the best thing to do. The one
1009
01:01:13,527 --> 01:01:16,967
that is where you would mail your mail or just pick up the phone and
1010
01:01:16,991 --> 01:01:20,621
just, you know, I think a good journey for folks who are just stepping
1011
01:01:20,653 --> 01:01:24,493
into this to establish themselves and just introduce yourself.
1012
01:01:24,629 --> 01:01:28,117
Hi, you know, my name's Brian. I'm. I've been.
1013
01:01:28,301 --> 01:01:31,093
I followed the. The senator's campaign.
1014
01:01:31,189 --> 01:01:34,605
And you could say, you know, I was impressed with this. You could say there's
1015
01:01:34,645 --> 01:01:37,845
some things I disagree with, but it's great.
1016
01:01:37,925 --> 01:01:41,365
Congratulations. I live at whatever
1017
01:01:41,405 --> 01:01:44,853
the address is, whatever the town is, and I, I just wanted to
1018
01:01:44,869 --> 01:01:48,285
introduce myself. I'm always active in the community. I'm active with
1019
01:01:48,325 --> 01:01:51,697
my church. I'm active in little league. I'm in my library.
1020
01:01:51,761 --> 01:01:55,297
Fill in the blanks. And I just, I just wanted to reach out and tell
1021
01:01:55,321 --> 01:01:58,497
you that animal protection is very important to me. And to
1022
01:01:58,561 --> 01:02:02,097
begin that dialogue there. I just gave you the script. That's great. That's great.
1023
01:02:02,161 --> 01:02:05,785
It's a great script. So, okay,
1024
01:02:05,865 --> 01:02:09,205
so we touched on a lot today.
1025
01:02:09,505 --> 01:02:12,593
So once you start me talking, I don't shut up. I know.
1026
01:02:12,689 --> 01:02:15,905
No, I think this is a great conversation because there's always so much
1027
01:02:15,945 --> 01:02:18,827
to know and so much to learn. Yeah, there is. And I think it's.
1028
01:02:18,961 --> 01:02:22,087
It's really, really important for people to not
1029
01:02:22,111 --> 01:02:24,795
be afraid to understand how things work.
1030
01:02:25,935 --> 01:02:28,275
But for people, what steps can we take?
1031
01:02:28,975 --> 01:02:32,687
You know, find out who your representatives are.
1032
01:02:32,831 --> 01:02:36,223
If you are already engaged with a specific group,
1033
01:02:36,359 --> 01:02:40,415
sign up for the action alerts. From national and local
1034
01:02:40,495 --> 01:02:43,871
organizations. Follow them. As you said at
1035
01:02:43,903 --> 01:02:47,581
one point this week, we're targeting this area with the puppy
1036
01:02:47,613 --> 01:02:51,405
mill pipeline. Bill. Right. At one point, Long island was the
1037
01:02:51,445 --> 01:02:54,781
focus and the power center and organizing people was in Long
1038
01:02:54,813 --> 01:02:58,861
Island. Right then it shifted out to western New York in Buffalo.
1039
01:02:58,933 --> 01:03:02,869
It's an organic thing. My advice to folks,
1040
01:03:03,037 --> 01:03:06,541
be involved, be aware. Don't be afraid,
1041
01:03:06,693 --> 01:03:10,237
have fun. This is fun. Build a community.
1042
01:03:10,341 --> 01:03:13,261
You know, this is a trip. I camp like you saying, I go into the
1043
01:03:13,293 --> 01:03:16,845
capitol and I'm wearing my suit. You know, usually like,
1044
01:03:16,885 --> 01:03:19,997
you know, I'm just wearing a Ramones T shirt or something. But when
1045
01:03:20,021 --> 01:03:23,933
I go in that office, I'm feeling good, I'm looking good, I'm influencing
1046
01:03:23,989 --> 01:03:27,661
people and I'm doing it for the animals. And that is
1047
01:03:27,693 --> 01:03:31,293
a satisfying feeling. And others should experience that as
1048
01:03:31,309 --> 01:03:34,645
well in varying degrees. And it's so important to be active for the
1049
01:03:34,685 --> 01:03:38,125
animals because we. And this is
1050
01:03:38,165 --> 01:03:41,893
a segue into the last question, I guess. But we
1051
01:03:41,989 --> 01:03:45,449
can be. We. Let's talk about a little bit about how hard it is to
1052
01:03:45,457 --> 01:03:49,369
be an animal activist sometimes. So we get. We feel helpless,
1053
01:03:49,497 --> 01:03:53,361
we feel hopeless. We see this all the time and we share
1054
01:03:53,393 --> 01:03:56,085
a post or we. Like, that's great.
1055
01:03:56,385 --> 01:04:00,113
But I think it's empowering to do something.
1056
01:04:00,249 --> 01:04:03,009
Whether it's hold a protest, sign, make a phone call,
1057
01:04:03,177 --> 01:04:05,405
sign a petition,
1058
01:04:06,665 --> 01:04:09,873
it's really important to do something. When I would go to the
1059
01:04:09,889 --> 01:04:13,473
capitol for whatever I was going there for, I loved
1060
01:04:13,489 --> 01:04:16,411
it. Like, when I got home, I was like, I want to go back tomorrow.
1061
01:04:16,523 --> 01:04:19,875
Like, that was my thing. Hi. It's wonderful. It is. And I.
1062
01:04:19,915 --> 01:04:23,267
And because you're doing something, even when I attend a protest or
1063
01:04:23,371 --> 01:04:26,539
I make a phone call, there was an action recently for some
1064
01:04:26,587 --> 01:04:30,307
designers to call and ask them to go for free. And I was not an
1065
01:04:30,331 --> 01:04:33,827
expert in that at the moment. I was like, oh, my God, I can't talk
1066
01:04:33,851 --> 01:04:36,523
about this. And I said, you know what? I got on the phone, I was
1067
01:04:36,539 --> 01:04:39,819
talking to a customer service rep and I said, will this go to corporate?
1068
01:04:39,867 --> 01:04:43,543
And she said, yes. And she's taking the notes. And I said, we're asking.
1069
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:47,431
I can't remember the designer right now. I'll try to remember. But we're asking
1070
01:04:47,463 --> 01:04:50,975
this com, the company to go fur free. Please, you know,
1071
01:04:51,015 --> 01:04:54,743
adopt a fur free policy. This is cruel to animals. You know, people don't
1072
01:04:54,759 --> 01:04:57,183
want to wear fur. And guess what? A lot of. Because it was a part
1073
01:04:57,199 --> 01:05:01,047
of an action that was on a whole day. And I said, the people I
1074
01:05:01,071 --> 01:05:04,887
think quick on my feet. But I said the people calling today,
1075
01:05:05,071 --> 01:05:08,035
we're not like poor activists. We have money,
1076
01:05:08,545 --> 01:05:12,473
we will buy your products if you go for free and animal skin
1077
01:05:12,529 --> 01:05:15,761
free because we will want to show it off, we will want to celebrate you.
1078
01:05:15,793 --> 01:05:18,881
So they need to know that, you know, it's not just like, you know,
1079
01:05:18,913 --> 01:05:21,753
you're animal killers, we're going to throw blood on you tomorrow. But I'm calling you
1080
01:05:21,769 --> 01:05:25,017
to let you know first. It was, you know, it was empowering. And I hung
1081
01:05:25,041 --> 01:05:28,313
up the phone like, you know what, I'm really glad about what I said and
1082
01:05:28,329 --> 01:05:31,593
I feel good and you know, it was a good thing.
1083
01:05:31,649 --> 01:05:34,881
So anyway, it was a little bit. Long winded, but it wasn't long winded
1084
01:05:34,913 --> 01:05:38,481
at all. There's, it's very easy, especially with social
1085
01:05:38,553 --> 01:05:41,578
media. If you think about even in the past 20,
1086
01:05:41,679 --> 01:05:45,685
30 years, the evolution and the amount of information
1087
01:05:46,425 --> 01:05:49,585
we are exposed to every day,
1088
01:05:49,705 --> 01:05:53,313
continually, all day long,
1089
01:05:53,489 --> 01:05:57,473
it's overwhelming. I mean it is going to impact the eventual
1090
01:05:57,529 --> 01:06:00,425
evolution of us as a species as well.
1091
01:06:00,545 --> 01:06:04,071
It's intense. So it's very easy for us to go
1092
01:06:04,103 --> 01:06:07,695
down that rabbit hole. Like I have friends who,
1093
01:06:07,855 --> 01:06:11,743
their Facebook feed is just one God awful picture
1094
01:06:11,839 --> 01:06:15,199
right after another. And you see that they're
1095
01:06:15,247 --> 01:06:18,115
posted every 10 minutes for years.
1096
01:06:20,095 --> 01:06:23,399
I feel bad, like that's, that's a horrible place
1097
01:06:23,527 --> 01:06:27,175
to be in, you know, like, try to remember.
1098
01:06:27,255 --> 01:06:30,355
I offer this as a thought to our listeners.
1099
01:06:31,055 --> 01:06:35,063
There was a time, as we mentioned earlier, to talk about being a vegetarian.
1100
01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:38,247
People would just look at you like you're insane or like what do you eat?
1101
01:06:38,311 --> 01:06:42,327
Lettuce. Right. You know, there was a time where people didn't know
1102
01:06:42,351 --> 01:06:46,543
what a puppy mill was. There was a time
1103
01:06:46,679 --> 01:06:50,615
when photographs of trophy hunting with
1104
01:06:50,655 --> 01:06:53,723
some ne'er do well standing over a pile of,
1105
01:06:53,759 --> 01:06:57,235
of dead baboon babies, they smiling
1106
01:06:57,275 --> 01:07:00,835
at the camera. This stuff is out of fashion now.
1107
01:07:00,875 --> 01:07:04,539
There was a time when a giant gaudy fur coat was
1108
01:07:04,587 --> 01:07:08,227
the height of respectability. You know, we are
1109
01:07:08,291 --> 01:07:12,163
evolving now. So all of this information that's
1110
01:07:12,219 --> 01:07:15,435
online, we can use this, we can be a part of it, but let's not
1111
01:07:15,475 --> 01:07:19,323
become overwhelmed with it. These horrible things
1112
01:07:19,379 --> 01:07:23,169
that happen to people and animals, you know,
1113
01:07:23,297 --> 01:07:26,633
it's very hard to avoid seeing them. But if you
1114
01:07:26,649 --> 01:07:29,521
need to turn off the computer. Turn off the damn computer.
1115
01:07:29,593 --> 01:07:33,049
Yeah, step away, you know, and focus. If it's
1116
01:07:33,097 --> 01:07:36,409
overwhelming, say I'm going to focus on one
1117
01:07:36,457 --> 01:07:40,585
thing for the third time. I'm going to sing the praises of the impossible hot
1118
01:07:40,625 --> 01:07:41,245
dog.
1119
01:07:43,265 --> 01:07:46,569
So Brian has no stock in the Impossible Hot Dog. Oh, my God.
1120
01:07:46,697 --> 01:07:50,265
I'm aware of. And you know where I'm going right now after this is done?
1121
01:07:50,425 --> 01:07:54,421
I'm going to go to HannaFord or to WizardB in Albany and pick myself
1122
01:07:54,453 --> 01:07:57,293
up for a possible hot dog. He doesn't own stock in Wiserburg.
1123
01:07:57,349 --> 01:08:01,277
I do not. So, you know, all kidding aside, don't. Don't become
1124
01:08:01,341 --> 01:08:05,021
overwhelmed with these things have moved in
1125
01:08:05,053 --> 01:08:08,949
such a positive direction for animals. We are
1126
01:08:09,077 --> 01:08:12,293
winning. Are we ever going to eliminate suffering?
1127
01:08:12,389 --> 01:08:16,101
Now this is a theological discussion. We are never going to
1128
01:08:16,133 --> 01:08:19,439
eliminate suffering. But we can do as much as we can to stop.
1129
01:08:19,477 --> 01:08:23,363
Stop these things. And we have to work to stop. Yes. You know, get things
1130
01:08:23,419 --> 01:08:27,747
banned. Yeah. Right. I tend to go to prohibit,
1131
01:08:27,851 --> 01:08:31,619
but I like, end. Yeah. And the animal
1132
01:08:31,667 --> 01:08:34,667
suffering end. The practice of, you know,
1133
01:08:34,731 --> 01:08:38,611
ban. So these are all things that on our journey
1134
01:08:38,763 --> 01:08:41,655
of being advocates, and I will say this,
1135
01:08:41,995 --> 01:08:45,491
many of us, myself included, starts out as an
1136
01:08:45,563 --> 01:08:49,323
activist. That's the term, an animal rights activist. Right. I want
1137
01:08:49,339 --> 01:08:52,849
to see our listeners become animal rights advocates. Yes.
1138
01:08:52,937 --> 01:08:56,817
You know, like you have done. Like Patrick has done, like I have
1139
01:08:56,841 --> 01:08:59,497
done. We are professional,
1140
01:08:59,681 --> 01:09:03,241
educated advocates. And I think
1141
01:09:03,273 --> 01:09:06,185
that's the way to go in the direction for us to evolve in and to
1142
01:09:06,225 --> 01:09:09,689
feel good about. Ourselves and take action whenever
1143
01:09:09,737 --> 01:09:13,129
we can. And it does feel good and it gets you out of that hopeless
1144
01:09:13,217 --> 01:09:17,565
feeling. So because this is your life,
1145
01:09:18,005 --> 01:09:22,133
you're fighting for animals. You have to talk to legislators
1146
01:09:22,189 --> 01:09:25,781
who may not want you. They in their office or who
1147
01:09:25,813 --> 01:09:29,525
may. I remember stories from Patrick Finnesha
1148
01:09:29,565 --> 01:09:32,981
days years ago. So we ask
1149
01:09:33,173 --> 01:09:36,845
all of our guests who are out there making changes for animals and
1150
01:09:36,885 --> 01:09:40,373
doing great things and who are really dedicating their lives
1151
01:09:40,429 --> 01:09:44,507
to this. Like you. Like you have. So. So what
1152
01:09:44,531 --> 01:09:48,211
do you do to take breaks and how do you avoid
1153
01:09:48,323 --> 01:09:51,283
burnout? What do you do for fun to kind of like,
1154
01:09:51,379 --> 01:09:54,923
you know, not think about it for a little while? I love music, so I
1155
01:09:54,939 --> 01:09:58,027
like to dj. I like to play bass.
1156
01:09:58,211 --> 01:10:02,011
I record collect. He likes the Impossible Burger.
1157
01:10:02,163 --> 01:10:05,899
I love hot dogs. I am. I do prefer
1158
01:10:05,947 --> 01:10:09,507
the Impossible Burger over the Beyond Burger. But that's
1159
01:10:09,531 --> 01:10:13,235
for our next discussion, our culinary discussion,
1160
01:10:13,315 --> 01:10:16,679
which you are in a leading position. Position to. To advocate
1161
01:10:16,727 --> 01:10:20,719
for. Right. But no, seriously. And yeah, and I've seen you DJ and.
1162
01:10:20,767 --> 01:10:24,775
And you love it. And that's it. I'm very pleased to give you tinnitus.
1163
01:10:24,895 --> 01:10:28,835
It's nice because I like loud music. I like loud music,
1164
01:10:29,175 --> 01:10:32,351
you know, and it is important to step away.
1165
01:10:32,503 --> 01:10:36,071
And it's Hard. It's not easy. Yeah.
1166
01:10:36,103 --> 01:10:39,567
You know, burnout is a real thing and I, I want to use
1167
01:10:39,591 --> 01:10:42,791
that as the example again. And I'm not,
1168
01:10:42,903 --> 01:10:46,727
you know, critiquing, but I think if every
1169
01:10:46,791 --> 01:10:49,875
post on your Facebook page is something horrible,
1170
01:10:50,775 --> 01:10:54,559
you know, hats off to you for recognizing
1171
01:10:54,607 --> 01:10:58,887
the injustice of it and the need to change and
1172
01:10:58,911 --> 01:11:02,055
to end certain practices. But I don't know,
1173
01:11:02,095 --> 01:11:05,943
man. Put, put, put a little video of
1174
01:11:05,959 --> 01:11:09,463
a groundhog frolicking every morning. You know, you talk about what I like to
1175
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:13,345
do. So my morning is death wish coffee, reggae music
1176
01:11:13,505 --> 01:11:16,809
and feeding backyard wildlife. Yeah. So for an hour,
1177
01:11:16,897 --> 01:11:19,681
hour and a half. So I know this is what you do. It's true.
1178
01:11:19,713 --> 01:11:23,033
I'm not making this up. I mean, there's nothing cuter than a
1179
01:11:23,089 --> 01:11:26,457
groundhog eating a slice of apple like it's a pizza.
1180
01:11:26,561 --> 01:11:29,769
It's, you know, very lucky groundhogs in your yard. They are,
1181
01:11:29,897 --> 01:11:33,161
they are well fed. So you know, these are the types
1182
01:11:33,193 --> 01:11:36,377
of things, find things that we
1183
01:11:36,401 --> 01:11:40,735
are not, we are not going to change the world by burning out,
1184
01:11:41,155 --> 01:11:45,243
by overwhelming ourselves with the
1185
01:11:45,299 --> 01:11:49,011
negatives of the situation we're in. You gotta
1186
01:11:49,043 --> 01:11:52,515
recharge and find fun things. And that's what I said. You know what? Let this
1187
01:11:52,555 --> 01:11:55,819
journey be fun. Enjoy it. This is a righteous,
1188
01:11:55,947 --> 01:11:59,803
fun journey with friends and colleagues. We met,
1189
01:11:59,859 --> 01:12:03,811
we are friends. We met through the animal protection movement back
1190
01:12:03,843 --> 01:12:07,267
in the day for the Internet. The whole quote,
1191
01:12:07,331 --> 01:12:11,419
animal rights movement was just a small gathering of five people
1192
01:12:11,507 --> 01:12:15,579
that we get together, maybe watch some PETA videos and have a discussion and
1193
01:12:15,587 --> 01:12:19,203
then go protest outside of, you know, a fur shop or something.
1194
01:12:19,259 --> 01:12:23,299
Yeah, but these are people who we met, who we made friendships with.
1195
01:12:23,387 --> 01:12:27,091
So you're not alone. Yeah. And it's good to hang out with those
1196
01:12:27,203 --> 01:12:30,495
people, like minded people, go out to dinner, have a little gathering
1197
01:12:30,925 --> 01:12:33,949
and you can complain a little bit about the animal stuff.
1198
01:12:33,997 --> 01:12:37,317
Yes. But you know, I find that we try not to as much. We try
1199
01:12:37,341 --> 01:12:41,029
to just have fun. Like our. My friend Jean says it's a JFF day
1200
01:12:41,117 --> 01:12:43,733
Just for Fun day. I love it. And she's like, we have to have a
1201
01:12:43,749 --> 01:12:47,245
jff and it's, and it's, it's needed. And Jean's been,
1202
01:12:47,365 --> 01:12:51,021
you know, protest protesting since 1970 something,
1203
01:12:51,133 --> 01:12:55,085
you know, so. And she's still in it. So you know, that longevity.
1204
01:12:55,205 --> 01:12:57,949
But you know, think about it like this. If that, if you make it your
1205
01:12:57,997 --> 01:13:02,225
job in, to be an activist or advocate or however you identify
1206
01:13:02,595 --> 01:13:06,339
for animals, would your, if you worked in an
1207
01:13:06,387 --> 01:13:09,907
office, would you allow them to make you work 24, 7. You wouldn't do
1208
01:13:09,931 --> 01:13:13,659
that. And the animals can't, you know, they won't benefit
1209
01:13:13,707 --> 01:13:17,259
if you burn out. So why are you making yourself work like that if
1210
01:13:17,267 --> 01:13:20,563
you wouldn't let the boss man do that to you? Right on. Right. And I
1211
01:13:20,579 --> 01:13:23,331
still put a lot of pressure on myself, so I'm learning and that's why I
1212
01:13:23,363 --> 01:13:26,787
ask. And, you know, I think it's important to kind of, as we're
1213
01:13:26,811 --> 01:13:30,523
inspiring people to be advocates, you know, let them know that,
1214
01:13:30,579 --> 01:13:33,283
you know, you can take breaks and you don't have to. We're not telling you
1215
01:13:33,299 --> 01:13:36,483
to do this. We're not putting demands on you. The only demand we have is
1216
01:13:36,499 --> 01:13:40,491
to be a voice for the animals. Yes. Right, Chance you get. Yes. So anything
1217
01:13:40,523 --> 01:13:43,483
else you'd like to add before we wrap up for today?
1218
01:13:43,579 --> 01:13:46,707
We'll have you back. I'm sure. I'd love to come back. I. I just,
1219
01:13:46,771 --> 01:13:50,531
I want to thank you and, and Patrick and in behalf
1220
01:13:50,563 --> 01:13:54,067
of animals for the outstanding work and bringing this message to
1221
01:13:54,091 --> 01:13:57,495
the listeners and, and I would like to thank everyone who's
1222
01:13:57,535 --> 01:14:01,919
listening right now. I think you're listening because you recognize
1223
01:14:02,007 --> 01:14:05,527
the importance of animal protection and what it means to
1224
01:14:05,551 --> 01:14:09,783
you personally. So for the umpteenth time,
1225
01:14:09,959 --> 01:14:13,775
recognize that. Feel good about yourself, feel good about what you're
1226
01:14:13,815 --> 01:14:17,927
doing. Many times we focus on these animal protection
1227
01:14:17,991 --> 01:14:22,111
issues, but we don't take time out when we hold an animal, a companion
1228
01:14:22,183 --> 01:14:25,707
animal, to really drink in that, the beauty
1229
01:14:25,771 --> 01:14:29,227
of that moment. When you're with an animal, life is good.
1230
01:14:29,371 --> 01:14:32,635
All we can do is what we can do as individuals.
1231
01:14:32,715 --> 01:14:36,347
So stay on the right path, enjoy life and stay in it for
1232
01:14:36,371 --> 01:14:39,851
the animals. That's perfect. Thank you so much. Thanks,
1233
01:14:39,883 --> 01:14:40,723
Nicole. Thanks,
1234
01:14:40,779 --> 01:14:48,975
everybody.
1235
01:14:49,285 --> 01:14:52,557
Hey there, animal lovers. Nicole here from. In behalf
1236
01:14:52,581 --> 01:14:55,885
of animals, we hope you love our show as much
1237
01:14:55,925 --> 01:15:00,045
as you love animals. And if you do, can you take a quick action
1238
01:15:00,125 --> 01:15:04,037
to help amplify their voices? Simply follow our podcast
1239
01:15:04,141 --> 01:15:07,661
and write us a five star review on Apple Podcasts,
1240
01:15:07,773 --> 01:15:11,485
Spotify or wherever you are listening right now. It helps
1241
01:15:11,525 --> 01:15:14,613
new listeners discover the show and to learn more about
1242
01:15:14,669 --> 01:15:18,175
how they can help animals. Animals, thank you again for
1243
01:15:18,215 --> 01:15:21,767
being part of this great community. We appreciate your support
1244
01:15:21,951 --> 01:15:25,367
and remember, be a voice for the animals every
1245
01:15:25,431 --> 01:15:26,215
chance you get.
