Relentless Activism with Jodie Wiederkehr

1
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,726
Welcome to in behalf of Animals, I'm Nicole Arcello.

2
00:00:11,918 --> 00:00:15,422
Before we dive into today's conversation, I just wanted

3
00:00:15,446 --> 00:00:18,782
to take a moment to thank you all for the incredible outpouring

4
00:00:18,806 --> 00:00:22,902
of support following our first episode. Your messages,

5
00:00:23,046 --> 00:00:26,592
shares and reviews mean the world to us, and we're so

6
00:00:26,656 --> 00:00:29,784
grateful that you're here standing with us in

7
00:00:29,792 --> 00:00:33,528
the fight for animal liberation. Today, I'm excited

8
00:00:33,584 --> 00:00:36,272
to introduce the first of many guests,

9
00:00:36,416 --> 00:00:39,672
Jody Whitaker. Jody's journey is

10
00:00:39,696 --> 00:00:43,576
a powerful example of what can be achieved with determination

11
00:00:43,688 --> 00:00:47,100
and relentless advocacy for those who have no voice.

12
00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:51,208
Our conversation focuses on the cruelty of the horse carriage

13
00:00:51,264 --> 00:00:55,108
industry, but we also talk about two other urgent

14
00:00:55,164 --> 00:00:59,140
animal issues, individual animals who need our help

15
00:00:59,260 --> 00:01:02,852
right now. Whether you're looking for ways to

16
00:01:02,876 --> 00:01:06,780
fit advocacy into your busy schedule or you're ready

17
00:01:06,820 --> 00:01:10,188
to deepen your commitment, Jodi offers practical,

18
00:01:10,284 --> 00:01:13,532
inspiring advice on how you could take meaningful action.

19
00:01:13,636 --> 00:01:17,548
Starting today, we've included some steps you can take immediately

20
00:01:17,604 --> 00:01:21,268
in the show notes, along with more information about Jodi

21
00:01:21,404 --> 00:01:25,556
and her organizations, and you can find more on our website in

22
00:01:25,588 --> 00:01:29,348
behalf of animals.org, on our blog. By the end

23
00:01:29,364 --> 00:01:32,692
of this episode, you will feel motivated and empowered.

24
00:01:32,876 --> 00:01:35,400
So let's jump in with Jodi now.

25
00:01:36,580 --> 00:01:40,280
Jody, welcome to in behalf of Animals.

26
00:01:40,940 --> 00:01:44,138
Thank you very much. Thanks for your interest in talking to me.

27
00:01:44,244 --> 00:01:47,406
I'm so excited for you to be here, and I'm sure you'll be

28
00:01:47,438 --> 00:01:50,450
back quite a bit. So just so you know,

29
00:01:52,070 --> 00:01:55,710
you're a tireless activist. You have multiple organizations,

30
00:01:55,790 --> 00:01:59,358
multiple campaigns, daily actions for people to

31
00:01:59,374 --> 00:02:03,054
take for animals, and a weekly radio show about animal issues.

32
00:02:03,222 --> 00:02:06,742
And we'll get to some of that. That's a lot. But today

33
00:02:06,806 --> 00:02:09,850
we are talking mostly about horse carriages.

34
00:02:10,340 --> 00:02:13,740
So I want to start out by asking you to take us

35
00:02:13,780 --> 00:02:17,164
through a typical day in the life of a horse

36
00:02:17,212 --> 00:02:19,160
who is used for carriage rides.

37
00:02:20,260 --> 00:02:23,852
Well, obviously, some cities are different than others,

38
00:02:23,996 --> 00:02:27,516
but I'll tell you what I know about Chicago, and I think

39
00:02:27,548 --> 00:02:30,948
this would be comparable to many major cities.

40
00:02:31,084 --> 00:02:35,092
But in Chicago, there were laws on the books to protect the horses and

41
00:02:35,116 --> 00:02:38,988
the public. And one of the laws were was how long the

42
00:02:39,004 --> 00:02:42,708
horses could work. And that law was that they could only work 6 hours in

43
00:02:42,724 --> 00:02:46,292
a 24 hours period. And what we started documenting in August

44
00:02:46,316 --> 00:02:49,708
of 2017 is that the horses would arrive at

45
00:02:49,724 --> 00:02:53,244
the horse carriage stand downtown Chicago in the middle of Michigan

46
00:02:53,292 --> 00:02:56,520
Avenue, traffic and pedestrians and tourists,

47
00:02:56,820 --> 00:03:00,492
approximately 930 10:00 a.m. on weekends.

48
00:03:00,676 --> 00:03:04,502
And so we would document they arrived.

49
00:03:04,646 --> 00:03:08,190
And what we found is that they were working these horses more than 12

50
00:03:08,270 --> 00:03:11,406
hours more than double what Chicago's law allowed.

51
00:03:11,518 --> 00:03:15,046
So, and another thing we witnessed is not

52
00:03:15,078 --> 00:03:19,090
only were they breaking that law, but they were rarely providing water.

53
00:03:19,390 --> 00:03:22,830
The reason for that, we believe, is that they didn't want them

54
00:03:22,950 --> 00:03:26,918
urinating on the street. There were laws, if they urinated on

55
00:03:26,934 --> 00:03:30,574
the street, that the carriage operator had stopped the carriage

56
00:03:30,702 --> 00:03:34,166
and pour down a soapy solution.

57
00:03:34,358 --> 00:03:37,558
And so they didn't want them urinating.

58
00:03:37,614 --> 00:03:41,070
So they were rarely given water. And we documented this a

59
00:03:41,110 --> 00:03:44,606
lot and proved this to the city and

60
00:03:44,678 --> 00:03:48,214
they were actually cited and fined. So imagine being a

61
00:03:48,262 --> 00:03:51,494
thousand plus pound horse in a major city.

62
00:03:51,542 --> 00:03:55,810
Chicago's the third largest city in the United States. You are

63
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,768
forced to trot from your

64
00:03:59,824 --> 00:04:03,808
stable, which is basically a cage, just bigger than a cage.

65
00:04:03,944 --> 00:04:07,008
A stall is just bigger than a horse. So it's like a cage for a

66
00:04:07,024 --> 00:04:10,768
horse a good half hour or so to get to the carriage stand,

67
00:04:10,904 --> 00:04:14,656
and then you are either standing around or giving rides,

68
00:04:14,728 --> 00:04:18,472
forced to pull carriage and people around all day

69
00:04:18,616 --> 00:04:22,250
for more than 12 hours. And youre around

70
00:04:22,410 --> 00:04:25,914
motorcycles and emergency vehicles and

71
00:04:26,082 --> 00:04:29,522
bus, city buses and garbage trucks and

72
00:04:29,546 --> 00:04:32,218
a lot of pedestrians. And horses are prey animals.

73
00:04:32,274 --> 00:04:36,066
They're 1000 plus pound prey animals who spook easily

74
00:04:36,178 --> 00:04:39,510
and they're in this very loud urban environment.

75
00:04:39,810 --> 00:04:43,642
So those are just some of the things that we know these

76
00:04:43,666 --> 00:04:47,486
horses go through. And then after working a twelve plus hour day,

77
00:04:47,618 --> 00:04:50,886
they go back to a cage where they, we don't even

78
00:04:50,918 --> 00:04:54,118
know if they could lie down comfortably at all or at

79
00:04:54,134 --> 00:04:58,046
all. They had no turnout in Chicago, there was no law regarding

80
00:04:58,078 --> 00:05:02,374
turnout, which would allow them to be in grass or pasture

81
00:05:02,502 --> 00:05:05,398
where they could run, play with others,

82
00:05:05,574 --> 00:05:09,390
lie down, roll in the grass. There was no requirement

83
00:05:09,430 --> 00:05:13,618
for that in Chicago. And I know many other major cities,

84
00:05:13,774 --> 00:05:17,018
horses have a similar fate where after working

85
00:05:17,074 --> 00:05:20,790
on the streets all day, they go back into a dingy warehouse

86
00:05:22,130 --> 00:05:25,394
without grass under their feet, without being able to stretch,

87
00:05:25,482 --> 00:05:29,230
without being free from this exploitation.

88
00:05:29,530 --> 00:05:32,610
It's really awful. And I think a lot of people don't. Maybe people

89
00:05:32,650 --> 00:05:36,146
aren't aware of this issue because maybe there isn't

90
00:05:36,338 --> 00:05:40,234
horse carriages in their city and they're not seeing it. But when they travel,

91
00:05:40,282 --> 00:05:44,430
they definitely see this and they think it's this romantic,

92
00:05:44,770 --> 00:05:47,978
you know, thing to do. What happens to

93
00:05:47,994 --> 00:05:51,530
the horses after this industry is done with them? I'm sure they're

94
00:05:51,570 --> 00:05:54,634
too slow. And in their minds, the horses,

95
00:05:54,722 --> 00:05:58,258
you know, they're not, they're useless. They're not money makers anymore. What do they do?

96
00:05:58,434 --> 00:06:02,498
Well, as you know well, and many people who work in animal advocacy.

97
00:06:02,554 --> 00:06:06,034
Know that when horses can no longer provide

98
00:06:06,082 --> 00:06:09,494
a profit for their owners, there is no use for them.

99
00:06:09,582 --> 00:06:13,606
There is no money put into a horse if

100
00:06:13,638 --> 00:06:17,246
they are lame or if they break a lamb, there's no money put

101
00:06:17,278 --> 00:06:21,542
into these horses. So I don't have statistics on Chicago's

102
00:06:21,566 --> 00:06:25,006
carriage horses, but it's very likely that they

103
00:06:25,038 --> 00:06:29,254
end up being dumped in kill pens or possibly sent overseas

104
00:06:29,302 --> 00:06:32,854
to be slaughtered for meat. Again, there is,

105
00:06:33,022 --> 00:06:37,190
when we work on bands around the world, the pro

106
00:06:37,350 --> 00:06:41,134
horse carriage industry will say to us, well, if they don't have a job,

107
00:06:41,302 --> 00:06:44,770
well, then they're going to go to slaughter or they're going to, you know,

108
00:06:45,070 --> 00:06:49,046
nothing good. They'll go to the glue factory. They'll say, so we

109
00:06:49,078 --> 00:06:52,102
say, our response to that is, if they don't

110
00:06:52,126 --> 00:06:55,890
have a job and they. You're going to send them to the glue factory,

111
00:06:56,190 --> 00:07:00,090
what happens when they're too lame and too old to pull a carriage?

112
00:07:00,670 --> 00:07:04,052
What happens then? Do you. Because they always say, well,

113
00:07:04,076 --> 00:07:07,740
there's no money if they're not pulling a carriage. Well, then where's the money

114
00:07:07,780 --> 00:07:11,412
to care for the old horses or the lame horses when,

115
00:07:11,596 --> 00:07:16,180
when they, they can't do the job anymore. So we

116
00:07:16,220 --> 00:07:19,420
know as activists that, and we'll, we'll tell everybody this,

117
00:07:19,460 --> 00:07:22,764
we will find homes for these horses when we get banned.

118
00:07:22,892 --> 00:07:26,404
However, at the end of the day, these horses are owned animals. Unfortunately,

119
00:07:26,452 --> 00:07:29,752
horse animals are property. So if the

120
00:07:29,776 --> 00:07:33,392
horses do end up going to a kill pen or being

121
00:07:33,416 --> 00:07:37,600
slaughtered, that is on the owners, we have offered

122
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,192
homes. We will always work with the owners of these horse

123
00:07:41,216 --> 00:07:44,072
carriage companies to find homes, rescues,

124
00:07:44,136 --> 00:07:47,472
sanctuaries or the horses, we will raise the

125
00:07:47,496 --> 00:07:50,960
money to do so. But at the end of the day, if the owners are

126
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,520
not willing to work with animal advocates, are not willing to allow these

127
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,326
horses to go to sanctuaries or rescues,

128
00:07:57,478 --> 00:08:00,886
and they end up in a bad place that is completely on

129
00:08:00,918 --> 00:08:04,250
the owners, not on animal advocates. Right.

130
00:08:04,830 --> 00:08:08,542
It's always the same story. If they wouldn't, if they weren't, if we weren't

131
00:08:08,566 --> 00:08:11,270
abusing them, well, then they wouldn't exist.

132
00:08:11,350 --> 00:08:14,366
Right. But they're born into this. Yeah.

133
00:08:14,478 --> 00:08:18,454
So you had a groundbreaking victory in Chicago

134
00:08:18,542 --> 00:08:22,366
in April of 2020. Chicago City Council

135
00:08:22,438 --> 00:08:26,990
voted overwhelmingly, 46 to four. Is that right? To bandaid

136
00:08:27,020 --> 00:08:30,498
horse carriages in the city beginning under a year later,

137
00:08:30,554 --> 00:08:34,218
January 1. So that this is like victory on top of

138
00:08:34,234 --> 00:08:37,578
victory on top of victory. Usually these are phase outs that are a number of

139
00:08:37,634 --> 00:08:41,266
years. So that's the short story of it all. So tell

140
00:08:41,298 --> 00:08:44,506
us how you accomplished this in a very short period of time,

141
00:08:44,578 --> 00:08:47,714
too. Sure. Well, the Chicago lions for Animals

142
00:08:47,762 --> 00:08:51,418
formed in May of 2015, and there was a group of us that

143
00:08:51,474 --> 00:08:55,584
formed it together. And it was actually my suggestion that we.

144
00:08:55,712 --> 00:08:58,992
That horse care just be our first campaign, because it's

145
00:08:59,016 --> 00:09:02,576
kind of low hanging fruit. Obviously, big agriculture

146
00:09:02,648 --> 00:09:06,144
and animal experimentation are two issues

147
00:09:06,192 --> 00:09:09,576
I'd love to see go by the wayside, but those are gonna be harder.

148
00:09:09,608 --> 00:09:13,280
So we started doing monthly outreach down by the horse carriage stand.

149
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,584
Very peaceful, friendly outreach, where we held signs,

150
00:09:16,672 --> 00:09:20,626
handed out flyers, ask people to sign our in person petition,

151
00:09:20,818 --> 00:09:24,242
give us testimony, video testimonials about why they would

152
00:09:24,266 --> 00:09:28,050
like to see horse carriages banned in Chicago. And we did this for

153
00:09:28,170 --> 00:09:31,074
about two years. And we also reached out to the mayor's office.

154
00:09:31,202 --> 00:09:34,810
We reached out to aldermen, the two aldermen where the horses worked

155
00:09:34,850 --> 00:09:38,322
and were stabled. We could not get a meeting with them because we were not

156
00:09:38,346 --> 00:09:42,066
their constituents. The mayor's office refused to respond to us,

157
00:09:42,098 --> 00:09:45,810
ever. And so my good friend and volunteer,

158
00:09:45,850 --> 00:09:49,434
Barbara Whelan Krantz, who I called my right hand woman,

159
00:09:49,602 --> 00:09:53,778
she and I were in Washington, DC, at the National Animal Rights conference,

160
00:09:53,914 --> 00:09:57,378
and it was kind of a slow time. We were sitting at our booth,

161
00:09:57,434 --> 00:09:59,802
and we were just discussing the campaign,

162
00:09:59,946 --> 00:10:03,186
and we decided we have to pick our game up.

163
00:10:03,298 --> 00:10:07,626
Our monthly outreach and trying to get meetings with the officials was

164
00:10:07,658 --> 00:10:10,806
just not cutting it. And we decided right then and there,

165
00:10:10,938 --> 00:10:14,278
we picked a date in August when we got home, and we were going to

166
00:10:14,294 --> 00:10:18,014
go down the horse carriage stand very early and

167
00:10:18,182 --> 00:10:21,990
document when the horses arrived. And we read up on

168
00:10:22,030 --> 00:10:25,166
all of Chicago's laws and regulations regarding the trade.

169
00:10:25,318 --> 00:10:28,550
And what we realized was Chicago's laws were pretty

170
00:10:28,590 --> 00:10:31,862
progressive compared to other cities. For example,

171
00:10:31,926 --> 00:10:35,486
in Chicago, the temperature they could work at, they could not work

172
00:10:35,518 --> 00:10:38,080
them above 90 degrees in the summer.

173
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,700
In Dallas, Texas, that temperature is 100 degrees.

174
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,368
So. But that doesn't mean they. They enforce the law.

175
00:10:45,464 --> 00:10:49,040
And so we went down, we documented that the horses were being

176
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,576
overworked every single time they were out. They worked them when it was

177
00:10:52,648 --> 00:10:56,480
too hot. They worked them on streets. They weren't allowed.

178
00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,176
So there were laws on the books to protect the horses and also to

179
00:11:00,208 --> 00:11:03,514
protect the public, but none of those laws were being enforced.

180
00:11:03,672 --> 00:11:07,502
So by going down and documenting these violations and then

181
00:11:07,566 --> 00:11:10,970
sharing them with the mayor's office and the city council,

182
00:11:11,510 --> 00:11:15,502
we proved to them that the city agency that was tasked

183
00:11:15,566 --> 00:11:18,798
with enforcing these laws was a Monday through Friday,

184
00:11:18,854 --> 00:11:22,486
09:00 to 05:00 agency. They weren't down at the horse carriage stand on

185
00:11:22,518 --> 00:11:26,166
Saturdays and Sundays, when the horses were being overworked.

186
00:11:26,238 --> 00:11:29,446
They weren't down there on the 4 July when the horses were being worked in

187
00:11:29,478 --> 00:11:33,770
too hot of weather. So a combination of documenting the violations

188
00:11:33,850 --> 00:11:37,826
and then sharing those violations with the city council, doing what

189
00:11:37,858 --> 00:11:41,162
we started, and it all started in 2017.

190
00:11:41,346 --> 00:11:44,674
August 2017 is when we started documenting the horses and the

191
00:11:44,682 --> 00:11:47,946
violations. I believe it was October of 2017.

192
00:11:48,058 --> 00:11:51,010
I started what I called daily action alerts.

193
00:11:51,050 --> 00:11:54,842
Daas, where every day we would pick

194
00:11:54,866 --> 00:11:58,628
a target, say, one day would be the mayor of Chicago,

195
00:11:58,724 --> 00:12:01,596
the next day would be the first award, next day,

196
00:12:01,628 --> 00:12:05,612
second ward. And I provide all of the contact information for that

197
00:12:05,676 --> 00:12:09,252
official, and I urge everybody to take action one way.

198
00:12:09,276 --> 00:12:12,508
So either make one phone call, send one email, send a

199
00:12:12,524 --> 00:12:16,196
Facebook message, send a tweet, send an Instagram message,

200
00:12:16,388 --> 00:12:19,772
contact them through their website, and anybody can do

201
00:12:19,796 --> 00:12:22,772
these actions. Oh, I was just going to ask one little thing, just not to

202
00:12:22,796 --> 00:12:26,236
interrupt. But when you say everybody, were you posting these on social media?

203
00:12:26,308 --> 00:12:29,544
So people that weren't even in Chicago, we're taking action,

204
00:12:29,632 --> 00:12:33,464
or. Yes. Yes. Okay. Because it's a tourist industry.

205
00:12:33,632 --> 00:12:37,048
So what I tell people is you can simply

206
00:12:37,104 --> 00:12:40,376
tell them, you can say one sentence, please ban

207
00:12:40,408 --> 00:12:43,624
horse carriages in Chicago, or you can say your name, you can

208
00:12:43,672 --> 00:12:47,328
say, I live in Toronto and I love Chicago,

209
00:12:47,424 --> 00:12:50,368
but I'm not going to visit, I'm not going to spend my tourism dollars in

210
00:12:50,384 --> 00:12:54,212
Chicago until horses are no longer exploited on Chicago streets.

211
00:12:54,336 --> 00:12:58,020
So people can put as much time into these as they want.

212
00:12:58,060 --> 00:13:01,668
They can share a recent accident or fatality, or they

213
00:13:01,684 --> 00:13:05,316
can simply say one sentence. That's all it takes. And just

214
00:13:05,428 --> 00:13:09,348
by a one method, you know, one way of contacting them. And so

215
00:13:09,404 --> 00:13:13,420
I think between these. These daas documenting the violations,

216
00:13:13,540 --> 00:13:17,012
and then we started testifying before the city council, submitting public

217
00:13:17,076 --> 00:13:20,920
comment, and we did this every month for two years. Wow.

218
00:13:21,340 --> 00:13:25,548
We got the bill introduced in December of 2017

219
00:13:25,724 --> 00:13:29,404
because we showed the alderman where the horses work,

220
00:13:29,572 --> 00:13:33,356
all these violations, and we actually got on the

221
00:13:33,428 --> 00:13:37,180
agenda to be voted on in September of 2018.

222
00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:40,724
So just nine months after the bill was introduced,

223
00:13:40,892 --> 00:13:44,404
unfortunately, after a four and a half hour hearing, the chair of

224
00:13:44,412 --> 00:13:48,530
the committee blocked a vote. We had enough votes to pass it, and she blocked.

225
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:52,934
So we just kept going, and we got it. The agenda,

226
00:13:53,022 --> 00:13:56,822
we had to wait until March of 2020 to get it heard again in

227
00:13:56,846 --> 00:14:00,582
the committee where it was sitting, the license committee. But then Covid

228
00:14:00,646 --> 00:14:03,934
hit. Covid literally hit the

229
00:14:03,982 --> 00:14:07,646
day we got it passed out of the committee unanimously.

230
00:14:07,758 --> 00:14:11,358
And that scared me to no end. Because I

231
00:14:11,374 --> 00:14:15,126
was so worried that the city council might feel

232
00:14:15,158 --> 00:14:18,574
sorry for the operators because they weren't

233
00:14:18,742 --> 00:14:22,810
being able to make a. Make any money because

234
00:14:23,150 --> 00:14:26,718
everything was shut down. Yeah. What a complication. Yeah.

235
00:14:26,774 --> 00:14:30,550
So one week after our, our agenda,

236
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:33,814
it passed through the committee unanimously. It was supposed to go to

237
00:14:33,822 --> 00:14:37,006
the full city council for a vote, and we were

238
00:14:37,038 --> 00:14:40,342
sure it would pass, but it got delayed and because of

239
00:14:40,366 --> 00:14:44,542
COVID So luckily, we got it done in. That is.

240
00:14:44,646 --> 00:14:47,470
That is awesome. And then fast forward.

241
00:14:47,550 --> 00:14:50,918
So big victory. Biggest city

242
00:14:51,054 --> 00:14:54,502
in the US, right. That has. With a

243
00:14:54,526 --> 00:14:58,078
ban on horse carriages. And then fast forward

244
00:14:58,134 --> 00:15:02,050
to January 1. So what happened?

245
00:15:02,350 --> 00:15:05,966
Did it go smoothly or did you have to be there to make sure they

246
00:15:05,998 --> 00:15:08,530
were shut down? In all honesty,

247
00:15:08,830 --> 00:15:12,878
because of COVID they had that phase out from April till

248
00:15:13,014 --> 00:15:16,502
January 1 of 2021, but they weren't out

249
00:15:16,566 --> 00:15:19,930
hardly at all because of COVID They couldn't really work.

250
00:15:20,270 --> 00:15:23,950
You know, and obviously, my organization and

251
00:15:24,110 --> 00:15:27,558
every animal rights organization, our goal is not to put people out

252
00:15:27,574 --> 00:15:30,190
of work or to end small businesses.

253
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:33,476
But when your business relies on

254
00:15:33,508 --> 00:15:36,900
animal exploitation or animal suffering to make a profit,

255
00:15:37,060 --> 00:15:40,836
then it's time to reevaluate your business and. And.

256
00:15:40,908 --> 00:15:44,380
And transition to something more humane.

257
00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:47,860
And that was our goal. And so January 1

258
00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:51,036
came along, and they were. They were just gone. And I would go

259
00:15:51,068 --> 00:15:54,452
down routinely to check. And, of course,

260
00:15:54,516 --> 00:15:58,128
I had all my Chicago volunteers on alert to

261
00:15:58,244 --> 00:16:01,536
let me know if. If they ever saw any horses working.

262
00:16:01,728 --> 00:16:05,072
Since that date, we have heard about a

263
00:16:05,096 --> 00:16:08,496
couple carriage rides, and it's illegal in any way,

264
00:16:08,528 --> 00:16:12,432
shape and form, not only as a tourist trade downtown,

265
00:16:12,576 --> 00:16:15,688
but they cannot be rented in the city for weddings,

266
00:16:15,824 --> 00:16:19,456
for, you know, for any events. And we were alerted to

267
00:16:19,488 --> 00:16:21,820
a couple. There was one on Halloween.

268
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,694
Someone had rented one as, like, a Cinderella type

269
00:16:25,832 --> 00:16:29,418
Halloween costume. And, you know, we,

270
00:16:29,594 --> 00:16:33,186
we alerted this to the officials, but unless we can

271
00:16:33,218 --> 00:16:36,378
catch them in the act, it's kind of hard. But it's only happened a couple

272
00:16:36,434 --> 00:16:39,666
times. And we're, of course, we're keeping our

273
00:16:39,698 --> 00:16:42,962
eyes open, and we'll report it and urge the city to

274
00:16:42,986 --> 00:16:47,026
cite and find any operators who are breaking Chicago's law.

275
00:16:47,218 --> 00:16:51,050
So was that your idea, to put that in the legislation, to have no

276
00:16:51,090 --> 00:16:54,576
private use? It was actually horse carriage

277
00:16:54,608 --> 00:16:57,824
hire, I guess. I don't know how to say that, but it

278
00:16:57,832 --> 00:17:01,104
didn't work. Ideally, that is our goal.

279
00:17:01,152 --> 00:17:05,384
But the way the law was written was simply that there.

280
00:17:05,472 --> 00:17:09,580
Well, they took out the language in Chicago's code that

281
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,760
all the language about horse carriage regulations, they just

282
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,154
took it out. So there was no way anybody can drive

283
00:17:18,202 --> 00:17:21,850
or ride in a horse carriage in the city limits. Oh, that is

284
00:17:21,890 --> 00:17:25,290
amazing. It didn't even occur to me that for weddings or some,

285
00:17:25,370 --> 00:17:28,954
you know, or other events, that people could still try to do this.

286
00:17:29,002 --> 00:17:32,954
So that's. That's just amazing. So it really

287
00:17:33,002 --> 00:17:36,618
is a very progressive law here in Chicago compared to

288
00:17:36,674 --> 00:17:40,026
other cities that have passed them that still might allow for

289
00:17:40,098 --> 00:17:43,802
special events or. And. And parades and

290
00:17:43,826 --> 00:17:47,282
things like that. I just have to say, this is grassroots activism at its

291
00:17:47,306 --> 00:17:50,698
finest, because the activism

292
00:17:50,754 --> 00:17:54,146
works. You know, you and I can say that it does. We know that,

293
00:17:54,218 --> 00:17:58,042
you know, the Margaret Mead quote, a small group of people can change the world.

294
00:17:58,106 --> 00:18:01,618
And so. Okay, so now

295
00:18:01,674 --> 00:18:04,938
you have partnership to ban horse carriages worldwide,

296
00:18:05,034 --> 00:18:08,026
right? Yeah. So tell me about that.

297
00:18:08,058 --> 00:18:11,734
And I. So how many cities are you working in, in the US or

298
00:18:11,782 --> 00:18:15,422
across the country? Tell us about how many

299
00:18:15,566 --> 00:18:19,574
cities have horse carriage operations. Well, there are many cities

300
00:18:19,622 --> 00:18:23,334
that still have the horse carriage operations. I couldn't even

301
00:18:23,422 --> 00:18:27,410
gather a number, but unfortunately, there are a lot more than there are vans.

302
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:31,598
But again, how. I said, everything formed started

303
00:18:31,654 --> 00:18:35,006
in 2017. That's when I formed the partnership. I think

304
00:18:35,038 --> 00:18:38,176
that was November of 2017. And I

305
00:18:38,208 --> 00:18:42,008
reached out to anybody and everybody I could around the world. If I

306
00:18:42,024 --> 00:18:45,904
could find a ban horse carriage page or anybody

307
00:18:45,952 --> 00:18:48,696
working on this, I reached out and said, hey, let's work together.

308
00:18:48,848 --> 00:18:52,232
Let's share campaign strategies. And one month

309
00:18:52,256 --> 00:18:56,416
later, we got a bill introduced. So our strategies were

310
00:18:56,448 --> 00:19:00,728
working. And so I have formed

311
00:19:00,824 --> 00:19:04,180
van horse carriages chapters throughout the world.

312
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,020
I helped guide my Philly activists.

313
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,496
I urged Stephanie Kirsten to take on this campaign.

314
00:19:12,688 --> 00:19:16,520
That's revolution Philadelphia. Yep. And she and Tiffany,

315
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,928
who was running revolution Philadelphia, worked together,

316
00:19:20,024 --> 00:19:23,400
and they implemented a lot of CAA strategies,

317
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,936
and they don't have a ban yet, but they got the horses off the street,

318
00:19:27,088 --> 00:19:30,622
so there are no horses working in Philly. And I

319
00:19:30,646 --> 00:19:33,966
hope that they do get a ban in place, because if

320
00:19:33,998 --> 00:19:37,446
New York City ever gets a ban, I worry that they might.

321
00:19:37,518 --> 00:19:41,158
Some of the operators or owners might try to transition to

322
00:19:41,334 --> 00:19:44,830
Philly or Boston or some of these other cities where

323
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:48,170
Boston rarely has a presence. They were working

324
00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:51,902
to get a ban in Boston, too. But my

325
00:19:51,926 --> 00:19:55,246
Dallas partner, Gloria Raquel Carbajal, and my Savannah

326
00:19:55,278 --> 00:19:58,908
partners are really working hard. I really

327
00:19:58,964 --> 00:20:02,540
hope we can get Savannah and Dallas band by the end of this year.

328
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:06,708
I'm also working with, like I said, Boston Charleston.

329
00:20:06,844 --> 00:20:10,332
I have a great volunteer there and an Indy

330
00:20:10,476 --> 00:20:14,468
who are working to on campaigns and implementing our strategies,

331
00:20:14,604 --> 00:20:18,316
such as the daAs, the 1 hour educational outreach

332
00:20:18,348 --> 00:20:22,160
a month testifying before city council documenting violations.

333
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:25,674
And I just recently picked up a new volunteer in Vancouver

334
00:20:25,802 --> 00:20:29,714
and St. Augustine, Florida. Oh, that's awesome. And I have chapters

335
00:20:29,762 --> 00:20:34,130
in New York City, Krakow, Poland, Atlanta, New Orleans.

336
00:20:34,290 --> 00:20:37,658
And I'm always looking for volunteers to help me in

337
00:20:37,674 --> 00:20:40,962
those cities. And keep in mind that when we worked on our

338
00:20:40,986 --> 00:20:44,950
campaign in Chicago, none of us got paid. We all worked full time.

339
00:20:45,890 --> 00:20:49,244
We did it when we could, and we didn't

340
00:20:49,292 --> 00:20:53,652
have one serious. We didn't have any accidents or fatalities during

341
00:20:53,756 --> 00:20:57,524
our campaign. Now, obviously, an accident or fatality

342
00:20:57,652 --> 00:21:01,452
will help ban horse carriages, but nobody wants that. Nobody wants

343
00:21:01,476 --> 00:21:05,436
to see a horse collapse or humans rush to the ER.

344
00:21:05,628 --> 00:21:09,708
So you can do this. Anybody can do this in their city.

345
00:21:09,884 --> 00:21:13,716
And I recommend putting in 1 hour a week. There's 24 hours

346
00:21:13,748 --> 00:21:16,832
in a day. Anybody can put in 1 hour a week. Yeah,

347
00:21:16,856 --> 00:21:19,936
there's always pockets of time in the day. And that's what our podcast is about,

348
00:21:19,968 --> 00:21:23,880
is being voiced for the animals every chance you get. And you're all about that

349
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,976
with your daily, your daily action DaA.

350
00:21:28,088 --> 00:21:31,848
Daily action alerts. That's right. Yeah. Can you speak

351
00:21:31,904 --> 00:21:35,152
to what happened in New York City at all? I know one of Mayor

352
00:21:35,176 --> 00:21:39,220
de Blasio's campaign promises was to do away with horse carriages

353
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,864
in a city as big as New York. Maybe there was

354
00:21:42,992 --> 00:21:46,672
political aspects that affected the campaign,

355
00:21:46,776 --> 00:21:50,576
whether celebrities or prominent people instrumental

356
00:21:50,608 --> 00:21:54,192
in defeating the initiative. I mean, I know this has been ongoing for

357
00:21:54,216 --> 00:21:57,440
a lot of years, so, you know, can you talk about that a little bit?

358
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,248
Sure. The whole New York City issue makes me incredibly sad.

359
00:22:01,424 --> 00:22:04,776
Obviously, their trade is bigger than any city.

360
00:22:04,848 --> 00:22:08,062
It's. It was a lot bigger than Chicago's, however.

361
00:22:08,256 --> 00:22:12,378
And they're up against the unions and

362
00:22:12,554 --> 00:22:15,190
that's their biggest obstacle. However,

363
00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:19,778
I don't know how if they're documenting violations.

364
00:22:19,954 --> 00:22:22,882
I think that is key, is you've got to get out there.

365
00:22:22,946 --> 00:22:26,778
And from morning to night, we didn't want

366
00:22:26,794 --> 00:22:30,186
to do it. We spent multiple Saturdays getting to the horse carriage,

367
00:22:30,218 --> 00:22:33,706
Dan, at 839 in the morning, and we were still there at

368
00:22:33,738 --> 00:22:37,702
01:00 a.m. on Sunday morning documenting the violations and documenting

369
00:22:37,726 --> 00:22:41,142
the fact that this horse got here at nine and

370
00:22:41,166 --> 00:22:45,150
it's now 1230 at night. And we, we would narrate our videos

371
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:48,798
and say, and that's. I mean, without the documenting of the

372
00:22:48,814 --> 00:22:52,862
violations, we would. We. The horses would still be downtown on Chicago streets.

373
00:22:53,006 --> 00:22:56,526
That is necessary in any city to prove

374
00:22:56,558 --> 00:23:00,334
that there are violations. And I will tell you, every city,

375
00:23:00,502 --> 00:23:03,850
every horse carriage operator violates the law, period.

376
00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:07,526
Yeah, absolutely. Whether it's overworking,

377
00:23:07,638 --> 00:23:11,262
not providing water, not providing breaks, going down streets,

378
00:23:11,286 --> 00:23:14,382
they don't belong. There are violations out there and

379
00:23:14,406 --> 00:23:17,690
they can be found, and that's critical to your campaign.

380
00:23:18,790 --> 00:23:22,974
I hope New York does it. I've helped. I have done everything I

381
00:23:23,102 --> 00:23:26,470
can to help New York City. I hope they're out

382
00:23:26,510 --> 00:23:30,732
documenting violations and then proving that to the mayor. Because some

383
00:23:30,756 --> 00:23:34,560
people have told me Chicago has such a progressive city council.

384
00:23:35,460 --> 00:23:39,380
You know, that's not why we got our ban. Chicago's city

385
00:23:39,420 --> 00:23:43,292
council is not an animal rights city council. Right.

386
00:23:43,436 --> 00:23:46,716
And the fact that we won 46 to four speaks

387
00:23:46,748 --> 00:23:50,580
volumes. It's not that they all loved horses.

388
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:54,484
It's that we prove about the violations and the dangers.

389
00:23:54,532 --> 00:23:57,690
That's another aspect is to prove to every time there's a

390
00:23:57,770 --> 00:24:01,002
fatality or an accident, it doesn't matter where it happens,

391
00:24:01,106 --> 00:24:05,298
you share it with your officials because your officials will say to you,

392
00:24:05,434 --> 00:24:08,834
we don't want to hear from people outside New York City or

393
00:24:08,882 --> 00:24:12,562
outside whatever city you're working on. We don't want, we don't care that there was

394
00:24:12,586 --> 00:24:16,162
a fatality in New Orleans. Well, too bad. We're going to tell you

395
00:24:16,186 --> 00:24:19,850
about it because it doesn't matter where these things happen. It's the same

396
00:24:19,930 --> 00:24:22,702
industry. It's the same. Same settings.

397
00:24:22,726 --> 00:24:26,854
Busy. Yes, urban settings. So officials

398
00:24:26,942 --> 00:24:30,174
will always tell you they don't want to hear from you or they don't care

399
00:24:30,222 --> 00:24:34,170
that an accident happened in a city outside their jurisdiction.

400
00:24:34,550 --> 00:24:37,694
That's what officials do. They don't want to hear from the public.

401
00:24:37,822 --> 00:24:41,654
But we have every right to share that information and to keep that pressure

402
00:24:41,702 --> 00:24:45,070
on. So that's what I urge all anyone working

403
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:48,756
on campaigns, whether it's forced care, just force racing animal

404
00:24:48,788 --> 00:24:51,876
circuses, is you have to constantly reach

405
00:24:51,908 --> 00:24:55,308
out to those officials and don't let them tell you, we don't

406
00:24:55,324 --> 00:24:57,836
want to hear from you. We don't want to hear from people, you know,

407
00:24:57,868 --> 00:25:01,324
anywhere. Everybody has a right to contact officials in support

408
00:25:01,372 --> 00:25:04,956
of animal welfare, animal protection and animal advocacy.

409
00:25:05,108 --> 00:25:08,500
That's right. Our officials need to know what we care

410
00:25:08,540 --> 00:25:11,652
about, and we need to tell them again and again and again. And they do

411
00:25:11,676 --> 00:25:15,002
have to listen. They have to mark it down. They have to listen.

412
00:25:15,066 --> 00:25:18,226
And you're right, they will give you pushback,

413
00:25:18,298 --> 00:25:21,746
but that squeaky wheel gets the grease. Right. And that's what it's all

414
00:25:21,778 --> 00:25:25,026
about. Exactly. And some advocates think that when

415
00:25:25,058 --> 00:25:28,058
an official tells them, oh, you know,

416
00:25:28,114 --> 00:25:31,986
if you have people contacting us who don't live in this town,

417
00:25:32,178 --> 00:25:35,510
we're not gonna pass a ban. That is a scare tactic.

418
00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:40,162
They're telling you that because they're sick of hearing, you know, getting 15

419
00:25:40,266 --> 00:25:43,360
2050 emails, phone calls, tweets,

420
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,400
Facebook messages a day. Do not let that stop you.

421
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,320
I can't stress that enough. Right? Yes. And they will.

422
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,224
They. They will do that. We just have to do something every single day.

423
00:25:53,312 --> 00:25:56,560
And sometimes it's a big something, like being out there at 01:00 a.m. right,

424
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,800
and documenting. And that'll be for a short time. You know,

425
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,008
that's when it's crunch time and you have to get all that.

426
00:26:03,184 --> 00:26:06,856
But then after that, it could be an hour a week or whatever.

427
00:26:06,928 --> 00:26:11,520
And. And we need people of all, you know, time dedications

428
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,912
to do. To do these things. So sorry

429
00:26:14,936 --> 00:26:18,688
to interrupt. I say that you

430
00:26:18,704 --> 00:26:22,940
don't have to run the campaign to help if you are on Facebook or.

431
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,780
Well, that's how I post my actions is on Facebook.

432
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,192
If you're not, I urge you to be on, because Facebook is a great tool

433
00:26:30,256 --> 00:26:33,568
for advocacy. But if you can know

434
00:26:33,584 --> 00:26:36,380
how to send an email, if you know how to make a phone call,

435
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,964
you can take action. Because a lot of people might look at

436
00:26:39,972 --> 00:26:43,484
my das because I provide a lot of information and they'll say,

437
00:26:43,612 --> 00:26:47,028
you know, that's overwhelming. I don't know how to do it. Again, if you

438
00:26:47,044 --> 00:26:50,092
know how to make a phone call, send an email. If you're on

439
00:26:50,116 --> 00:26:53,268
Facebook, you know how to comment on a post and you know how to

440
00:26:53,324 --> 00:26:57,020
do the DAA because you can send a message to an official.

441
00:26:57,180 --> 00:26:59,876
And again, it's one sentence. So where I say,

442
00:26:59,908 --> 00:27:03,206
today's DAA is to urge the

443
00:27:03,238 --> 00:27:06,702
mayor of St. Augustine to ban horse carriages. And then I provide her

444
00:27:06,726 --> 00:27:09,982
phone number, her email address. So just make that call

445
00:27:10,046 --> 00:27:13,510
and say, I'm urging the mayor to ban horse carriages.

446
00:27:13,670 --> 00:27:16,806
Thank you. Goodbye. It's that simple. And that's it.

447
00:27:16,878 --> 00:27:20,550
You don't have to be an expert. No. This is something that's so

448
00:27:20,590 --> 00:27:24,446
important for our listeners to know, as we're all about

449
00:27:24,558 --> 00:27:27,638
empowering people to fight for the animals,

450
00:27:27,774 --> 00:27:31,222
is you don't have to be an expert in any of this. So you're

451
00:27:31,246 --> 00:27:34,774
listening today. You're learning about horse carriages. You may learn about

452
00:27:34,942 --> 00:27:38,366
other. You will learn about other animal issues as you listen on,

453
00:27:38,478 --> 00:27:41,286
but you don't have to be an expert. You don't have to read books about

454
00:27:41,318 --> 00:27:43,910
it. You don't have to scour the Internet. You don't have to do your own

455
00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:47,454
research, because when we do actions like your daily action

456
00:27:47,502 --> 00:27:50,998
alerts. Everything's there. There's a script, there's contact

457
00:27:51,094 --> 00:27:54,478
information. You helped us form the horse racing

458
00:27:54,534 --> 00:27:58,214
wrongs action group. And a lot of times what we do on there

459
00:27:58,302 --> 00:28:01,978
is sometimes people say, oh, I don't know how to copy

460
00:28:01,994 --> 00:28:05,218
and paste something. I say, then dm me your email

461
00:28:05,274 --> 00:28:08,082
address and I copy it and throw it in an email because they can copy

462
00:28:08,106 --> 00:28:11,762
and paste better out of, I don't care what I have to do extra.

463
00:28:11,906 --> 00:28:15,314
As long as they can, they can make it easier

464
00:28:15,362 --> 00:28:18,458
for them. But we take every opportunity to make it easy.

465
00:28:18,514 --> 00:28:20,898
And I think that's so, so important.

466
00:28:21,074 --> 00:28:24,506
Exactly. And I tell people, do what

467
00:28:24,538 --> 00:28:27,714
you're comfortable with if you don't want to, if you don't want to

468
00:28:27,762 --> 00:28:30,070
make the call because you're uncomfortable talking.

469
00:28:30,570 --> 00:28:34,130
Again, I always say Facebook messenger is the easiest. You just

470
00:28:34,170 --> 00:28:38,146
click, I provide the link, you just click on it. Their page pulls

471
00:28:38,178 --> 00:28:41,762
up, you see message and you click message and you say, please ban horse

472
00:28:41,786 --> 00:28:45,810
carriages or email. And again, you don't

473
00:28:45,850 --> 00:28:48,386
have to be like, I love that you said, you don't have to be an

474
00:28:48,418 --> 00:28:51,310
expert. We are the ones providing the information.

475
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,184
It literally is one sentence. So please ban horse racing. Please ban

476
00:28:56,232 --> 00:28:59,616
the sale of fur in Chicago. We're trying to ban the sale of fur here

477
00:28:59,648 --> 00:29:03,336
now, too. So what are, what else are you working on?

478
00:29:03,488 --> 00:29:07,040
Like right now? I know you have daily action alerts that could vary day to

479
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,656
day from one end of the animal rights spectrum to the other and back

480
00:29:10,688 --> 00:29:13,928
and forth and in between. But what besides horse carriages,

481
00:29:13,984 --> 00:29:17,650
what? You mentioned fur band in Chicago. Yeah.

482
00:29:17,690 --> 00:29:21,506
What are we, we are trying to pass the bill

483
00:29:21,538 --> 00:29:25,282
to ban the sale of new per, in Chicago. We have 21 latest

484
00:29:25,346 --> 00:29:28,746
count, 21 co sponsors. There's 50 aldermen in Chicago.

485
00:29:28,778 --> 00:29:31,986
So we're almost halfway there. So if

486
00:29:32,018 --> 00:29:35,458
you're listening and you're a Chicago resident, we really need you

487
00:29:35,474 --> 00:29:38,898
to contact your city council member and urge them to sign on as

488
00:29:38,914 --> 00:29:41,930
a co sponsor. You don't even have to know the name of the bill.

489
00:29:42,090 --> 00:29:45,096
You could just say the bill to ban the sale of new fur in Chicago.

490
00:29:45,218 --> 00:29:48,660
If you are not a Chicago resident and you live anywhere else,

491
00:29:48,820 --> 00:29:52,636
please call either the mayor of Chicago or email Mayor

492
00:29:52,668 --> 00:29:56,284
Brandon Johnson or the 50th ward Alderperson,

493
00:29:56,332 --> 00:30:00,044
Deborah Silverstein. I don't have her contact info handling. We'll put it in the show

494
00:30:00,092 --> 00:30:03,100
notes so people can, I can definitely do that information. Yes,

495
00:30:03,220 --> 00:30:06,812
she is the chair of the license committee where

496
00:30:06,996 --> 00:30:10,596
this bill is sitting. And she was a co sponsor on the bill

497
00:30:10,628 --> 00:30:14,406
to ban horse carriages. And the bill that we helped passed

498
00:30:14,468 --> 00:30:18,482
to shut down the puppy mill stores in Chicago, which was another big success of

499
00:30:18,506 --> 00:30:21,746
ours. So she is compassionate individual.

500
00:30:21,858 --> 00:30:25,282
We just. She just needs a little extra pressure to get her to

501
00:30:25,386 --> 00:30:27,510
co sponsor and put it on the agenda.

502
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:32,202
We are also working hard to pass to get

503
00:30:32,226 --> 00:30:35,914
the village of Lincoln Wood, which is basically the furthest

504
00:30:36,042 --> 00:30:39,866
northwest on the edge of Chicago. The first village,

505
00:30:40,018 --> 00:30:43,798
very tiny town, but they have two laws on

506
00:30:43,814 --> 00:30:48,190
their books. One, it prohibits the sale of wild animals,

507
00:30:48,350 --> 00:30:52,766
and the other law is a Cook county law that prohibits the sale of rabbits.

508
00:30:52,958 --> 00:30:56,110
They waive their own laws. They have not enforced

509
00:30:56,150 --> 00:30:59,782
the Cook county rabbit law for more than six years now.

510
00:30:59,926 --> 00:31:03,598
And meanwhile, an animal rescue that's only a

511
00:31:03,614 --> 00:31:06,894
couple miles east of the village here in

512
00:31:06,902 --> 00:31:10,202
Chicago is inundated with rabbits that people

513
00:31:10,266 --> 00:31:13,658
buy at from pet stores, from the pet store

514
00:31:13,714 --> 00:31:17,786
in Lincoln Wood called the animal store. And they dump them because they realize

515
00:31:17,898 --> 00:31:21,650
that rabbits are not an easy pet. They're considered an exotic

516
00:31:21,690 --> 00:31:24,790
animal, so they have to be taken to an exotic veterinarian.

517
00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:28,978
And every year, red door animal shelter

518
00:31:29,034 --> 00:31:32,770
keeps track. All the rabbits that they rescue, that. That are

519
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:35,736
abandoned and that people dump.

520
00:31:35,888 --> 00:31:38,928
So every year, that number

521
00:31:38,984 --> 00:31:42,392
is around 1000 rabbits. Wow. And yet.

522
00:31:42,536 --> 00:31:46,552
And we've been testifying before Lehengenwood's board of trustees for

523
00:31:46,656 --> 00:31:49,800
more than two years now. We've told them every story about

524
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,160
rabbits who have, you know, been dumped, rabbits that

525
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,064
have lost limbs, and all of the horrible stories

526
00:31:57,152 --> 00:32:00,806
out there, and they. They are unmoved.

527
00:32:00,878 --> 00:32:04,702
It's unbelievable that they. And what's really sad is they seem to

528
00:32:04,726 --> 00:32:08,686
very. Be very progressive on social issues, like LGBTQ

529
00:32:08,758 --> 00:32:12,278
community and other cultures and religions. Yet when it

530
00:32:12,294 --> 00:32:15,210
comes to animals, they seem to be absolutely heartless.

531
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:19,918
And on top of that spur, the tortoise is

532
00:32:19,974 --> 00:32:23,670
a huge sulcata tortoise who was stolen from Africa,

533
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:27,190
stolen from her home and family, and plopped into a

534
00:32:27,230 --> 00:32:30,646
display case in the animal store in Lincoln Wood.

535
00:32:30,838 --> 00:32:34,854
This display case is approximately three by 5ft.

536
00:32:35,022 --> 00:32:38,582
She has nothing natural about her. Her life. She.

537
00:32:38,646 --> 00:32:42,582
All she has is hay and sometimes a heat lamp or

538
00:32:42,606 --> 00:32:46,414
a sunland, we're not sure which. She has nothing. She cannot

539
00:32:46,462 --> 00:32:49,662
burrow like sulcata tortoises like to do.

540
00:32:49,806 --> 00:32:52,710
She cannot roam. Sulcata tortoises are slow,

541
00:32:52,750 --> 00:32:55,892
but they like to roam for miles every day.

542
00:32:56,076 --> 00:32:59,700
And she is stuck in a display case to be used as

543
00:32:59,740 --> 00:33:03,100
a prop to get people to come into this store, and they waive

544
00:33:03,140 --> 00:33:05,840
their law. When we brought this to their attention in,

545
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:10,252
it was march of 2022, they literally voted to

546
00:33:10,276 --> 00:33:14,316
waive their own law, and that is keeping her in a

547
00:33:14,348 --> 00:33:18,244
prison. And we have a sanctuary in Arizona where the temperature

548
00:33:18,292 --> 00:33:21,628
would be comparable. The climate and everything about it would

549
00:33:21,644 --> 00:33:24,838
be comparable to her home in Africa. The sanctuary

550
00:33:24,894 --> 00:33:27,590
will take her. It would cost the village nothing.

551
00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:32,130
Caa would transport her safely to Arizona.

552
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:36,670
They don't care. So it's heartbreaking. But Caa

553
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:40,622
will not stop until we get her to sanctuary and we

554
00:33:40,646 --> 00:33:44,406
get the village to enforce these humane laws that were proposed,

555
00:33:44,558 --> 00:33:48,270
passed, and put on the books for a reason. And the most important thing that

556
00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:51,788
I'm hearing you say is, you know,

557
00:33:51,884 --> 00:33:55,908
they're, they're not, they're not budging. They don't care. They care about other issues.

558
00:33:56,044 --> 00:33:59,932
But you're not stopping, because we will win

559
00:34:00,076 --> 00:34:02,972
for animals if we keep going. Animal,

560
00:34:03,156 --> 00:34:06,772
out of all the social justice movements,

561
00:34:06,876 --> 00:34:10,788
they're all slow. All of them. Animals are really slow.

562
00:34:10,844 --> 00:34:14,228
Animals can't stand up. They can't protest for themselves.

563
00:34:14,284 --> 00:34:17,726
They can't speak for themselves. And that's why we need to do it. We need

564
00:34:17,758 --> 00:34:21,606
more and more people to do it. So thank you for all of

565
00:34:21,638 --> 00:34:24,770
that and all of that extra education on,

566
00:34:25,110 --> 00:34:29,230
you know, sad and bad things that are happening. But also the inspiration that

567
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:32,942
we can all do something for these animals every single day. And that's

568
00:34:32,966 --> 00:34:36,606
what keeps me going, too, is that I know I can do something every day

569
00:34:36,798 --> 00:34:40,342
because I can't sit still. I can't, you know, just like you, we're. We're so

570
00:34:40,366 --> 00:34:44,798
alike, and we can't just do nothing. So is

571
00:34:44,814 --> 00:34:47,502
there anything else? I want to get to a couple of our questions we like

572
00:34:47,526 --> 00:34:50,910
to ask everybody, but I am going to ask how people can get involved.

573
00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:54,310
We talked a little bit about that. Do you want to talk about that next,

574
00:34:54,350 --> 00:34:57,630
or do you have something else you wanted to add? We also

575
00:34:57,670 --> 00:35:00,910
are working for Rocky the coyote, who was found

576
00:35:00,990 --> 00:35:04,550
in the Carolinas as a pup. I believe his eyes were not even open.

577
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:07,902
The people who found him brought him to a local animal shelter,

578
00:35:08,006 --> 00:35:11,944
and they realized that he was a coyote pupdenne. And somehow river trail

579
00:35:11,992 --> 00:35:15,552
nature center, which is in the Cook county forest preserves, got their hands

580
00:35:15,576 --> 00:35:18,968
on him. They locked him into a cage,

581
00:35:19,144 --> 00:35:22,780
and he's been there for more than six years or seven years now.

582
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,552
He is a pack animal. He doesn't have a pack.

583
00:35:26,616 --> 00:35:29,920
He's all alone 24/7 you know,

584
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,224
they call his handlers his pack. They'll go in

585
00:35:33,272 --> 00:35:36,868
and they treat him like a dog. And because he was. Was found as

586
00:35:36,884 --> 00:35:40,324
a pup and handled, he is like a dog. And he's very

587
00:35:40,372 --> 00:35:43,772
closely related to a dog. So he has this

588
00:35:43,836 --> 00:35:47,212
need to have socialism. He loves when his handlers

589
00:35:47,236 --> 00:35:50,452
come in and pet him and give him treats and play with him like

590
00:35:50,476 --> 00:35:54,356
a dog, but then they're gone. So he might have approximately

591
00:35:54,388 --> 00:35:58,076
a half hour a day with his handlers and then for 23

592
00:35:58,228 --> 00:36:02,270
or maybe an hour. Well, let's be generous. Give him an hour with his handlers,

593
00:36:02,380 --> 00:36:06,178
but for 23 hours, he's alone and he's a pack animal. And they may,

594
00:36:06,234 --> 00:36:10,122
they spent, I believe it was around $250,000

595
00:36:10,186 --> 00:36:14,338
of Cook county tax dollars. I'm a Cook county taxpayer,

596
00:36:14,514 --> 00:36:18,138
to expand his cage. So he's got a bigger cage.

597
00:36:18,274 --> 00:36:21,778
But they're not addressing the fact that he's all alone.

598
00:36:21,914 --> 00:36:25,634
Right. And in the winter, we have documented that he has barely

599
00:36:25,722 --> 00:36:29,472
any protection. He's got a plastic doghouse. One year we

600
00:36:29,496 --> 00:36:32,472
documented he had no straw in his doghouse.

601
00:36:32,576 --> 00:36:36,312
So we're still fighting. We have a sanctuary. The wild animal

602
00:36:36,336 --> 00:36:40,336
sanctuary in Colorado will take him free of charge. We'll do the transport.

603
00:36:40,408 --> 00:36:43,416
They'll do the transport. There'll be no charge to Cook county.

604
00:36:43,568 --> 00:36:46,800
But again, they're not letting him go. So that's.

605
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,448
I just wanted to mention that campaign, and it's another very sad situation.

606
00:36:51,624 --> 00:36:55,344
Thank you. Thank you for making people aware of all of these things, because a

607
00:36:55,352 --> 00:36:59,064
lot of times we're not aware of them. Patrick and I always talk about confinement

608
00:36:59,112 --> 00:37:01,436
being one of the worst cruelties. Yes.

609
00:37:01,588 --> 00:37:05,132
Imagine. Imagine if one, if you at

610
00:37:05,156 --> 00:37:09,140
home listening or you or I are just in a closet

611
00:37:09,180 --> 00:37:12,404
for 23 hours a day. You know, we did nothing wrong,

612
00:37:12,452 --> 00:37:16,356
nothing to deserve that, and the animals did nothing to deserve this. And especially

613
00:37:16,508 --> 00:37:20,340
there is a safe haven for them. There is sanctuaries and rescue

614
00:37:20,380 --> 00:37:23,920
groups that can make these animals lives better.

615
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:28,796
Spur has been in this display case for more than 30 years.

616
00:37:28,908 --> 00:37:32,436
That's awful. And she has, it's a pet store,

617
00:37:32,468 --> 00:37:35,908
so they play. They play like rock and roll. Now, I'm a

618
00:37:35,924 --> 00:37:39,932
huge rock and roller, but she's a tortoise. And all she

619
00:37:39,956 --> 00:37:43,212
has is, like rock and roll and artificial light. Twenty four seven.

620
00:37:43,396 --> 00:37:46,692
And what is her life expectancy? She can live up to

621
00:37:46,716 --> 00:37:50,652
100 years, give or take. And we believe her age is around 40.

622
00:37:50,796 --> 00:37:54,336
So if nothing is done, she could language in this

623
00:37:54,368 --> 00:37:58,180
cage for another 60 years, give or take. It's awful.

624
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:02,616
And these are hard stories to listen to, and. But we

625
00:38:02,648 --> 00:38:06,176
want people to remember that it's important to fight for

626
00:38:06,208 --> 00:38:09,208
these animals and to not just give up or throw your hands up.

627
00:38:09,264 --> 00:38:12,936
We are all disgusted with humanity time and again

628
00:38:13,048 --> 00:38:17,112
because of the suffering that animals go through. Which leads me

629
00:38:17,176 --> 00:38:20,808
to my next question. It's a weird segue for it, but it's a

630
00:38:20,824 --> 00:38:24,850
little bit inspiring. Our mission for this podcast is to educate

631
00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:28,546
people about animal issues, to inspire people to fight

632
00:38:28,578 --> 00:38:31,394
for animals. And even though it's hard, heartbreaking work.

633
00:38:31,482 --> 00:38:34,790
So we like to ask each one of our guests this

634
00:38:35,530 --> 00:38:39,210
what do you do? We like to talk about balance. So what do you

635
00:38:39,250 --> 00:38:42,510
do, and how do you balance your life with activism?

636
00:38:42,810 --> 00:38:46,114
What do you do for fun? How do you take breaks? And how do you,

637
00:38:46,162 --> 00:38:49,376
most importantly, avoid? Burnouthen a

638
00:38:49,408 --> 00:38:52,656
great question. Well, if you're friends with me on

639
00:38:52,688 --> 00:38:56,136
Facebook, you probably know I love rock and roll. I know a little

640
00:38:56,168 --> 00:38:59,432
bit about you. But I actually don't make

641
00:38:59,456 --> 00:39:03,152
a lot of money. But I win a lot of concert tickets because I

642
00:39:03,176 --> 00:39:06,400
try. And if I don't win them, I usually

643
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,460
buy the cheapest ticket. But music,

644
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,128
it's not just rock and roll, actually. I love all kinds of music.

645
00:39:13,264 --> 00:39:16,522
I love the theater. I love show tunes. I go.

646
00:39:16,586 --> 00:39:19,874
So I go to concerts and I go. I go to a lot of musicals

647
00:39:19,922 --> 00:39:23,722
with my mom. That's our thing together. And it

648
00:39:23,746 --> 00:39:27,330
makes me happy. It takes me away from the suffering, away from the thinking

649
00:39:27,370 --> 00:39:30,970
about the suffering. But, I mean, my life is dedicated

650
00:39:31,010 --> 00:39:34,474
to the animals. I will always go to a rock concert

651
00:39:34,562 --> 00:39:38,218
or do things on my free time because

652
00:39:38,314 --> 00:39:40,630
I do not want to get burned out. And.

653
00:39:41,820 --> 00:39:44,956
And if you are listening and you're an activist,

654
00:39:45,108 --> 00:39:48,316
I want to say one thing. Some things people will say is, oh, I can't

655
00:39:48,348 --> 00:39:51,548
look at that. I can't read about that. I can't listen to that because I'll

656
00:39:51,564 --> 00:39:55,012
just think about it forever. And I get that because I

657
00:39:55,036 --> 00:39:58,228
remember when I first got involved in

658
00:39:58,244 --> 00:40:01,524
the movement, there were certain things, well, many things,

659
00:40:01,572 --> 00:40:04,852
but a couple of things where I could not stop thinking about it when I

660
00:40:04,876 --> 00:40:08,770
first learned about this kind of suffering. But I will tell you,

661
00:40:08,890 --> 00:40:12,266
the more you learn about it

662
00:40:12,418 --> 00:40:15,786
and the more you take action, the stronger you will become,

663
00:40:15,898 --> 00:40:19,898
because a lot of people feel helpless and hopeless

664
00:40:19,954 --> 00:40:23,826
about these issues. But when you take action, you don't.

665
00:40:23,938 --> 00:40:27,790
That feeling of hopelessness and helplessness

666
00:40:28,250 --> 00:40:31,510
starts to fade away. So again,

667
00:40:32,050 --> 00:40:36,246
that 1 minute action, whether no matter

668
00:40:36,438 --> 00:40:39,870
what your cause is, I mean, they're whatever you want to fight for.

669
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:43,038
And even if it's not animals, I mean, if you are fighting for the environment

670
00:40:43,134 --> 00:40:46,910
or LGBTQ or, you know, whatever issue,

671
00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:50,326
if you take a little action every day, that will make

672
00:40:50,358 --> 00:40:53,598
you feel more stronger.

673
00:40:53,694 --> 00:40:56,926
Yes. Empowering. Yes. It's empowering, yes. And so

674
00:40:56,958 --> 00:41:00,544
I urge everybody to do that because doing

675
00:41:00,592 --> 00:41:04,256
nothing will definitely not help, and complaining will definitely not

676
00:41:04,288 --> 00:41:07,648
help. So one thing

677
00:41:07,664 --> 00:41:11,152
that bothers me, and everybody can complain and vent. I do all the

678
00:41:11,176 --> 00:41:14,408
time. But if you're going to vent, do action, too,

679
00:41:14,504 --> 00:41:17,200
because taking action helps.

680
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,376
Complaining doesn't. I'm not saying we shouldn't

681
00:41:20,408 --> 00:41:23,696
vent and get it all out, but at least try to take action

682
00:41:23,808 --> 00:41:27,186
once a day for the cause. That's that you're passionate

683
00:41:27,218 --> 00:41:30,482
about. Yeah. And it is empowering. And it feels good. It feels good to make

684
00:41:30,506 --> 00:41:34,530
those phone calls. It feels good to stand with a protest sign. It feels

685
00:41:34,570 --> 00:41:38,362
good to be active in doing something because you know you're

686
00:41:38,386 --> 00:41:41,170
doing something. We feel helpless, we feel hopeless,

687
00:41:41,330 --> 00:41:44,738
but we know. Um, so thank you for that. And I think it's so important

688
00:41:44,794 --> 00:41:47,986
for people to not get burned out. And I think that's why we're kind

689
00:41:48,018 --> 00:41:51,810
of taking that head on as we're trying to inspire people

690
00:41:51,850 --> 00:41:55,570
to be active. We want them to know, you know, there's ways

691
00:41:55,610 --> 00:41:59,314
to get away from it, too. You know, you don't have to watch slaughter

692
00:41:59,362 --> 00:42:02,866
videos over and over and over. Once you know, you know, then just work

693
00:42:02,898 --> 00:42:06,274
to end it. Right, right. And, uh, most of my

694
00:42:06,322 --> 00:42:09,986
daas are not, they don't show a lot of

695
00:42:10,178 --> 00:42:13,778
gratuitous cruelty. And then you don't ever have to

696
00:42:13,794 --> 00:42:17,666
click on anything. I mean, again, sometimes we'll say, please share this video

697
00:42:17,818 --> 00:42:21,018
and you can copy and paste the link, but you don't have to watch it

698
00:42:21,034 --> 00:42:24,490
yourself. And I want to say this before we, I don't want to forget.

699
00:42:24,530 --> 00:42:28,310
It is when we worked on our campaign in Chicago,

700
00:42:29,170 --> 00:42:32,218
I think I mentioned we all worked full time. There were

701
00:42:32,274 --> 00:42:35,626
only when we started, the DAA is maybe a handful

702
00:42:35,658 --> 00:42:38,990
of people doing maybe five at the most.

703
00:42:39,290 --> 00:42:42,562
And I had three other women, I want to mention them.

704
00:42:42,626 --> 00:42:45,514
Barbara, Paula,

705
00:42:45,642 --> 00:42:49,884
and Claudia were my three main activists.

706
00:42:49,932 --> 00:42:53,412
I had others who helped, you know, who came to our protests and educational

707
00:42:53,436 --> 00:42:57,548
outreach, but the main people who worked on it regularly

708
00:42:57,604 --> 00:43:01,156
with documenting violations, testifying before city

709
00:43:01,188 --> 00:43:05,044
council, were four people. So you don't

710
00:43:05,092 --> 00:43:08,380
need the strength of a major animal rights

711
00:43:08,420 --> 00:43:11,572
organization to get these grassroots campaigns

712
00:43:11,596 --> 00:43:15,022
done. You can win them. We won in two and a half years

713
00:43:15,126 --> 00:43:18,294
with four main people doing the big,

714
00:43:18,422 --> 00:43:21,878
like, the heavy lifting. In a sense. We had, again, we had people come to

715
00:43:21,894 --> 00:43:25,206
outreach. We had people do the daas. But you can do it

716
00:43:25,278 --> 00:43:28,646
with a few people. Two people can do this. Yes. And I'm

717
00:43:28,678 --> 00:43:31,966
certain of that? Yes. I love your passion, your dedication,

718
00:43:32,078 --> 00:43:35,614
and your, you just, you keep going and you

719
00:43:35,622 --> 00:43:38,622
go to the rock concerts in between. And you. I do see a lot on

720
00:43:38,646 --> 00:43:42,452
Facebook that you win tickets. I'm going to have to because you make

721
00:43:42,476 --> 00:43:46,268
the call. See, you can making

722
00:43:46,324 --> 00:43:49,996
calls. You win tickets. You're relentless. And making calls, you can end animal exploitation.

723
00:43:50,068 --> 00:43:54,508
So in the last month, I have had two,

724
00:43:54,684 --> 00:43:58,212
my boyfriend and another friend win tickets because I couldn't.

725
00:43:58,356 --> 00:44:01,732
And, excuse me, I said call,

726
00:44:01,876 --> 00:44:05,316
and they did. And they won. And they won't say all the time. They're like,

727
00:44:05,388 --> 00:44:08,512
you're so lucky. Of course you won. And I'm like, when was the

728
00:44:08,536 --> 00:44:11,768
last time you called? But that's the thing.

729
00:44:11,824 --> 00:44:16,016
It's kind of like activism. Don't do it. If you don't try, you can't

730
00:44:16,048 --> 00:44:18,540
do it. Right. It won't happen. Exactly. Exactly.

731
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:22,792
So I'm sure we're going to have you back. Jody, thank you so much.

732
00:44:22,816 --> 00:44:26,624
This was a great conversation. We'll have links to whatever,

733
00:44:26,712 --> 00:44:29,624
everything we talked about and whatever else you'd like to add. We'll put that in

734
00:44:29,632 --> 00:44:33,104
the show notes for everyone to see. And thank you

735
00:44:33,152 --> 00:44:35,840
so much for being here. And thank you so much for all you do for

736
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,940
animals. Thank you. And thank you for everything you do. And Patrick

737
00:44:39,980 --> 00:44:43,308
and horse racing rungs does. I help you as much as

738
00:44:43,324 --> 00:44:47,060
I can. And I'll be there with you, too, until we ban

739
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:50,148
horse racing around the world. One team for the animals,

740
00:44:50,204 --> 00:44:53,084
right? That's right. Thank you so much.

741
00:44:53,252 --> 00:44:57,060
You know, that's important, too, is, you know, work with, even if you don't like

742
00:44:57,100 --> 00:45:00,108
someone, work with them because you're not doing it for them, you're doing it for

743
00:45:00,124 --> 00:45:03,884
the animals. Yes. Yes. Always put those personal things aside and just

744
00:45:03,972 --> 00:45:08,280
stay focused. And that's how we help animals every single day.

745
00:45:08,460 --> 00:45:11,860
So thank you so much. Thank you very much.

746
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,216
Hey, Nicole, here from in behalf of animals.

747
00:45:18,368 --> 00:45:22,256
We hope you love our show as much as you love animals.

748
00:45:22,368 --> 00:45:25,952
And if you do, can you take a quick action to help amplify their

749
00:45:25,976 --> 00:45:29,336
voices? Simply follow our podcast and write us

750
00:45:29,368 --> 00:45:32,272
a five star review on Apple Podcasts,

751
00:45:32,376 --> 00:45:35,362
Spotify and wherever you are listening right now.

752
00:45:35,506 --> 00:45:39,362
It helps new listeners discover the show to learn more about how

753
00:45:39,426 --> 00:45:42,418
they can join our community and help animals,

754
00:45:42,474 --> 00:45:45,946
too. Thank you for listening and remember to be their

755
00:45:45,978 --> 00:45:48,350
voice every chance you get.